Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

Wow, what a great-looking oven!

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

My oven, an Artigiano, is enclosed in a masonry structure with a roof. Does this make any difference in how I should be curing it?

[texassourdough]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

I have no problem with having a smaller fire for days if one has the time and ability. It will work but the fire does need to be big enough to push heat into the outer refractory and cladding to be of benefit.

The purpose of closing the door is to reduce heat loss from convection and radiation so that more of the heat in the refractory around the oven cavity will be pushed deeper into the refractory and drive out more water.

As the water vapor in the refractory is heated it tends to migrate to the cooler parts of the oven and to condense - which is in part why the exterior of the dome gets hot when you have a wet oven.

You don't particularly want to close the door after small fires but once you are building big fires with the temp on the hearth and dome in excess of 800 degrees for extended periods, closing the door can in my experience push the heat deeper into the refractory and cladding and aid in drying the outer refractory and cladding. Unfortunately drying out my oven is an experience I have far too often - I will be roofing my oven this fall to create a drier environment.

Jay

[karl]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

For efficient drying you should not close the door and should always keep a small fire going. Most of the water will leave the refractory with the flue gases and up the chimney.

karl

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

ok, I will do one last big fire tonight that completely clears the dome and then I will shut it down. Pizza will wait until the weekend. This will make 8 curing fires, including the one last night where I thought I made a sufficient pizza fire, but did not. That fire did burn for several hours though.

[texassourdough]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

One last thought Ron!

You MAY not be ready for a really big prolonged fire. As you have probably noted, too big a fire too early can lead to cracking. So...I would suggest first step is to build a big enough fire to clear the dome totally (which you should be ready for) and stop, simply close a door if you have one or let the fire die down and go out. Then go for a longer burn - say a half hour or so (which would be a good pizza point for most ovens so do pizza). You can continue that way but if you want to really dry out the oven, do a "bread" firing and keep the fire going for two hours or so after it clears. That is more than you need for bread but it will push the heat deep into the refractory and give you a drier oven. (Then the trick is keeping it dry!)

Hang in there!
Jay

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

Thanks very much for this excellent advice. I guess I just didnt appreciate how big the fire needs to be.

[texassourdough]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

You are without question still wet. It takes big fires, driving heat deep into the refractory to truly dry out an oven. As you concluded, the fire was way too small. You need to build a big enough fire to clear the entire dome and hold it that way for a couple of hours to have any chance of really drying out the oven.

It is easy to cheat on pizza and bake good pies before the hearth is properly loaded but it needs to be at least above 650 and more like 700 to 750 by most thermometers before you can balance the bottom to the top.

Try the technique I describe for testing the hearth. If it is too hot (which it should be when you first clear the hearth) wait a couple of minutes. If it is too cold, rake coals back over the hearth to recharge it. But... note, using coals to recharge is an indication the hearth is not hot enough (actually not heat loaded enough). You can put enough heat into it that way to do a couple of pies but it will keep cooling off and need recharging. The real answer is to build a bigger fire next time and load more heat into the hearth before beginning baking!

Good Luck!
Jay

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

I did five consecutive days of small fires, getting gradually bigger each day until I did the pizza last night, so maybe I was not building a big enough fire. Only a small portion of the dome went white, right above the fire when I moved it over to the side.

[dmun]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

As yours is a new oven, you may still be driving moisture out of the insulation. This will improve with time. You may also be hesitant to build the size fire you need to cook pizza. Does your dome go completely white (all the carbon burnt off)?

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

This was not due to hole in crust, sauce, or cheese. the pizza slid right off the peel, and it was not sticking in just one spot, but the hole underside was undercooked while the side near the fire got scorched. I think that my hearth was too cold. It was about 450. I am now seeing where it needed to be 700 or higher. Did I build my fire wrong or too small? How do I get my hearth hotter for next time? thanks very much for the quick reply

[texassourdough]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

Couple of possibilities. First question was - did the pizza have a hole? I.e. was there pizza sauce under the pie? That and cheese can easily glue down the center. You didn't mention that as a problem so I assume it was not.

Other possibility (which seems more likely) is your hearth was WAY cold. (Check the temp by tossing a quarter tsp of semolina or flour on the hearth. It should take about three seconds to turn brown. If it is much longer the hearth is too cold and if it is much shorter it is too hot.) If it was hot it would quickly toast the bottom and the pie would be easily release and be moved. That said, there is still something seriously wrong for a cold hearth alone should not cause the problem you describe. The pie should stick to the peel more than it sticks to the hearth. Other possible contributors are a dirty hearth (pull coals out to clean the hearth of stuck stuff and brush it periodically) and placing the pie too close to the flames. There is a good chance you had some cheese on the hearth you didn't recognize. Putting too much on the pies tends to encourage sticky hearths.

Good Luck!
Jay

[Ron Johnson]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

The outer edge of the crust became burned while the middle was still uncooked. I could not turn the pie because the uncooked portion was still sticking to floor while the side facing the fire was getting burned. any advice?

[texassourdough]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

Hi Joey!

I think you are really close to figuring it out. And a lot of it is what you want. IMO part of the fun of this is having a goal that is personal - others love your pies but you are after something they don't understand so you keep pushing and experimenting and searching...and eventually a small step arrives and it is a bit closer to the desired, but it is never done...

As an aside, it is important to recognize that ON THE WHOLE the first steps are the easiest. One can make big steps with realatively minimal effort. But as the level rises the time between steps of improvement grows and the steps get smaller. Same is true in all arts in my experience. And at some point it all makes sense. The quality is exceptional and the concern for growth diminshess. You are happy with what you know and what you make! I think this applies in many arts - painting, writing, pizza., etc.

Bake On!
Jay

[JoeyVelderrain]

Re: Common Mistakes, Pizza Disasters

Jay,
yeah, I think it is too much puff also
that is why I have been having trying to stretch my dough out thinner (as per my comment on the other thread) but thanks to you! I tried your technique with the fists this morning on a left over dough ball I had in the fridge from last night's failures and lo and behold!! the dough stretched out nicely! I easily spread it to an 11" circle in under a minute and after I took the pictures I was able to stretch it to about 24" before it broke!
Great window paning also, check out the pictures.




Maybe it was a combination of leaving the dough in the fridge over night and your technique???