Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

[nissanneill]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Hi Rossco,
I don't treat a commercial mixer any different, after all they are designed and manufactured specifically for the tasks that you are using it for.
I weigh out all the ingredients, warm the water and activate the yeast including the salt (which may or may not affect the fermentation of the yeast), turn on the mixer on the low speed and add the liquid. I beat it until it is at the right consistency and possessing the long stretchy characteristic. Some of the other members might do it differently but I have still a lot to learn but my doughs turn out fine.

Neill

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

A quick question on the use of a heavy duty mixer like a TBird/Hobart 20 QT mixer...

Do you just use it in the same way as a smaller mixer - particularly the length of time for kneading?

Are there any special techniques or methods that one needs to bear in mind/apply when using a large mixer?

My dough hook should arrive in the next day or so and I want to make a large batch of Xmas pizza dough. Just want to make sure I am well prepared!!!

Rossco

[cynon767]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Jamie
....
However, when you come across a bargain as I did last week ...

Neill

Aye, there's the rub. I don't know if it's the same down there, but here in northern California, anyway, craigslist is almost as played out as ebay. People list things that are beat to hell as "vintage" for almost as much as they cost new. Occasionally there are restaurants going out of business or which are renovating their kitchens which just need to get the old goods moved out, but even in these tough economic times those are few and far between, and they are usually snapped up instantly by the professional appliance refurbishers. I could go through one of them, but then I'm paying someone else for the parts and labor and not saving much over a new appliance in the end. Occasionally one which is so far gone that even the dealers won't take it; those are the ones that list for $50-100.

I've gone through this a few times recently looking for other appliances and household goods... washer & dryer, fridge, chainsaw, bicycles; I agree that often it is indeed best to get the fixer-upper, when the parts and labor required to get things up and running are reasonable, and with a little "sweat equity" you can get a great thing for a great price. But we figured that, given all the particulars in this case, it was not only easier, but also more cost-appropriate to just buy the KA 600 when it went on deep discount. Once we turn our baking and our pizza-making into a more regular and larger scale operation, we may change. But until then, this is a great kitchen appliance and an adequate dough mixer for our level of use.

Or, to put it another way: to each his own.

[nissanneill]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Jamie
I appreciate being on a budget and in a way we all are, just differing values I guess.
However, when you come across a bargain as I did last week and bought a 15-20 year old Hobart dough mixer for $50 needing a little electrical rewiring, some welding, some rubbing down and a coat of paint, (all up around a day or so's work), I grab it. Now I need to decide which one to keep, my new 2 speed or the 3 speed Hobart. I will sell the second unit.
I would guess that if you were in a similar position, you wouldn't hesitate as they don't come along very often.
The other one that I posted earlier for $100, is an older and rougher unit but the seller claims that it will mix 'blue tack' all day long!
Cheers.

Neill

[tfasz]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

After getting quite a large amount of feedback on the subject of dough making with the basic KA, my current view is that aside from issues like low power/nylon gears, this machine will not produce the really good dough results that I (and many others here) are pursuing. Whilst it will give you pizza dough - it's operation (slapping the dough rather than kneading) is not conducive to top quality dough making.

Interesting that you mention the KA not being the best. I've been using a standard 4 1/2 quart one for the last 10 years, but my wife's favorite bread that I've ever made came out of a regular Cuisinart Food Processor. I had given it to her as a gift and just gave it a shot making bread dough last year with the little plastic dough blade it comes with and had good success. I had gone back to using the KA over the past year just out of habit, but think I might give the Cuisinart a try again this weekend. (Not sure I'm going to be able to convince her that a commercial grade mixer is a good idea anytime soon ;-)).

Great info in this thread - thanks!

[cynon767]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

but you need to face the facts - they are designed for mixing and not specifically for kneading thick tough heavy dough.
.....

Good luck wit your domestic KA. I hope we don't hear sigs and condemnation of it from you when it dies!

Thanks for the warnings. One reason we went with the KA was because we didn't have any other mixer, and it could do double duty as a general kitchen mixer and occasional dough kneader. We don't yet have a need for anything larger or heavier duty. When (not if, mind you) we get more seriously into baking or want to do very large pizza parties, I'll consider looking into one of those used heavy models that needs some fixing up; but for now, being that we're on a budget, we could only afford one multipurpose unit that would cover our bases. We waited for a big sale and free shipping offer from macys; it came out to just over $300 for the KA600, less than half the price of the next step up.

Maybe next spring I'll start scouring craigslist and checking restaurant supply shops for the heavy-duty fixer-uppers; until then, though, I have too many other home improvement projects to tackle before I have time for rewiring used electrical appliances. For the time being, since it is likely to be only an occasional event, we'll probably just knead large batches too big for the KA the old fashioned way.

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Wow - so the 20 QT will do 7 Kg!! That is amazing.

Mine has a 3 Kg limit sticker added by the bakery. This may be an OS&H thing as I am sure that it is more than capable of handling greater loads.

Rossco

[nissanneill]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

cynon767
numerous members are very happy with their KA mixers and shower other members with praise, even our founding member James loves (or at least used to until it made unwanted noises and smelt rather hot electrically),

I tried 2Kg in the KA600 Pro a couple of days ago making Focaccia for a school event, and it made an awful noise and smell -- and I ended up hand kneading it to finish. It just ins't made for that volume.

but you need to face the facts - they are designed for mixing and not specifically for kneading thick tough heavy dough.
My wife used to cut crook at me using her Kenwood Chef, an older heavy duty, steel geared model but when you ask it to mix a single 1kg batch it will but jumps about and tries to twist and screw the head off it's stand. Anything over 1kg is a recipe for disaster, hence my small but commercial mixers. The largest batch that I have mixed is 4kg which it did without hesitation. The latest addition is a larger well known tried and proven brand is a 20 litre model that will mix (I am lead to believe) 7kg batches. I will never use that many as it will make 56 of my sized pizzas.
Good luck wit your domestic KA. I hope we don't hear sigs and condemnation of it from you when it dies!

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

UPDATE on attachments...

Got a call from the local Thunderbird rep who told me the price of the dough hook has now GONE UP to $320 (quoted $285 + $20 delivery yesterday)....

Some more research revealed that I am able to get the original beater, dough hook and whisker for $350 delivered. Still a lot of loot but I am happy to pay that for the original product. The other (generic) items are on the way to me and I will keep them as spares. It will be nice to have an "as original" mixer setup. I am sure that I would be able to get my money back on it anyway should I decide to sell it down the track.

*** Have ordered a set of 3 original attachments ***

Rossco

[Mitchamus]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Definitely worth keeping an eye out for a commercial mixer

Hmmmm...... nope not going to bite....

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

After getting quite a large amount of feedback on the subject of dough making with the basic KA, my current view is that aside from issues like low power/nylon gears, this machine will not produce the really good dough results that I (and many others here) are pursuing. Whilst it will give you pizza dough - it's operation (slapping the dough rather than kneading) is not conducive to top quality dough making. This thread will attest to, and inded highlight, problems with the KA when attempting to make pizza dough.

So, in wanting to make a really nice smooth, silky pizza dough I have turned to other options (not necessarily excessively expensive mind you) to achieve this objective.

This brings to light two primary options. Firstly, to buy a new, inexpensive "Chinese" machine. Himzo in this thread bought a nice machine for around the $700 - $800 mark. Secondly, and the option I went for, was the purchase of a second hand commercial machine. Neill in this thread found one for $50 and mine costed $100. Even allowing for some repairs (and in my case purchasing 2 x attachments for $142) you are well ahead of what you will need to spend on an unsuitable KA.

If you have a need to do light baking at home I am sure the KA will be the right tool for the job. I have been quite happy with mine (owned it for about 7 years now), but it gets very hot when working dough and as mentioned does not produce the goods for my particular need. I will keep the KA though so it's not that bad, but it will give me piece of mind using the Thunderbird knowing it is up to the job.

Definitely worth keeping an eye out for a commercial mixer - they are out there and many people replace them with a newer/larger machine and then want to offload the old one.

Good luck - keen to hear your comments and thoughts on the 600.

Rossco

[cynon767]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Upthread somewhere, someone mentioned the nylon gear vs steel gear issue with Kitchenaid mixers. I did a bit of looking into this when I was looking for a mixer recently. It seems the artisan series is meant for light-duty use and has a nylon drive gear assembly which will strip out under heavy load... such as repeated heavy bread or pizza dough mixes. The professional series have stronger motors and (most importantly) steel drive gears, which will stand up to a good deal more use of the sort we here are likely to give it. They won't take the high volume and constant use of the Hobarts and other commercial machines you're discussing, but you can usually get one for a lot less. For home use, I couldn't justify the size and expense of the real high power commercial models; I waited for a sale and sprung for the professional 600.

In our next house, the one with a full-size restaurant kitchen, I might have to reconsider.

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Wow - what a bargain Neill .....

Great to have a second machine as a backup. Definitely will make a big profit if you decide to sell it down the track.

As mentioned, I have ordered 2 x attachments for the mixer. Since then I have managed to track down original Thunderbird hooks etc - landed for $100 each. Price for the hook itself was $75 AUD - compared to $285 from the Oz agent. I can get a full set of 3 attachments for less than the price of 1 local one. That is a very big difference!

I will get the the machine ready for action over the festive season - just need to make some space in the garage!!

Will you be cranking the new mixer up to do a batch of dough any time soon??

Rossco

[nissanneill]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Rossco,
I went up to have a look at this dough mixer advertised locally at Mt Barker, it has a few problems but nothing that can't be fixed.
Whilst there, I took the back off the induction motor and no burnt out smell. Apparently it blew his earth leakage breaker when trying to change gears whilst the motor was running. I put in a bid earlier before I left and asked if he had a 'Buy Now' price and I got it for Aus$50 complete.
So, I bought it home, pulled the switch outer assembly off and washed out all the dried up dough restricting it's travels, re-wired the cut off electrical plug and 'whallah', it works like a dream.
Now I have 2 units, this one I will weld up the broken bowl lifter/carriage, clean it up and respray it. It is a Hobart 20l model, done a lot of work but will last forever with the occasional pizza dough mix that we tend to make.
It has 3 speeds (whereas my other one only has 2 speeds) and a very heavy duty 20l stainless bowl.
If your dough hook doesn't fit, being cast aluminium, I doubt that you will get it modified to fit

[heliman]

Re: Kitchen Aid - 1 kg flour

Bought 1 beater and 1 dough hook (Hobart 20 QT - clones?) brand new on eBay for $142 (AUD) delivered to the door!!!

Should work OK, but if not will get a friend to mod them for me.