New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

[Dan W]

...or should I say 107cm pompeii.

Some pics of my build in Canberra.

I've established there's a special 'Canberra WFO Tax'. Seriously hard to find refractory supplies here in Canberra, and what you can find is significantly marked up on Sydney and Melbourne prices. Would be very interested to hear where everyone in this region has sourced materials from? So far I've got vermiculite from South Pacific Hydroponics in Fyshwick (300L at $45/100L). Wanted to use insulating board, but just couldn't find it here and couldn't be @rsed trekking to Sydney to get some. Looking at getting fire bricks for the cooking floor from Amber tiles in Fyshwick (@ ~ $4.50/brick). Using Canberra Reds for the dome - there's a bloke in Watson who sells them cleaned of old motar - he's in the yellow pages. Had a mate bring back a fire blanket from Melb.


Thanks to tips from the forum, I'm thinking I'll put a thermocouple in the floor and also vent the insulation to assist in drying it out when it rains lots. Other than that, just a standard 42'' build, with waterproof render (no enclosure/roof).

Laid the slab ages ago, and the 100mm vermic/cement (6:1 ratio) insulating hearth yesterday.

Any good dome motar recipes that can be made from easy to find material gladly accepted. I've got two bags of fondu ciment, but at $45/bag from CE Industries in Fyshwick, I'm looking for a cheaper option!

Cheers!

Dan

[Capt]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Great start!

[Gulf]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Looks great Dan,
I like the forms. I have just one concern. Do you have some type of footing under the pavers that your oven stand is sitting on?
There may be something that I missed on this. I live in an area of sediment and unstable soil. Monolithic footings and slabs are the key here. I realize that there are places in the world that sit on bedrock, etc. that do not need the same support.

Just Sayin'

[brickie in oz]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Using Canberra Reds for the dome -

There is nothing wrong with using solids for the whole build.

[Bacterium]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Dan,
We seem to have plenty of alternative tomato growers in SA so that seems to keep the price on vermiculite down (purely based on rumour)...... Supply and demand on a number of levels I guess.

[Dan W]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Thanks all for the comments.

Good point Gulf. Hopefully she'll be right as it's a bit late now - the stand's straight on the pavers! My suburb used to be a dry as a bone sheep station. The soil's basically hard baked clay and the pavers have been laid very well on compacted earth and sand. There's no trees within cooee, so hopefully no big roots will disturb it. Think she'll be right.. but I may be proven wrong in a decade! Hope not!

Brickie - I'm keen to make pizzas and also roast, bake, and slow cook in the oven. You reckon the reds will: a) have enough thermal mass, and b) get hot enough for good pizzas? Those were the reasons I was thinking of shelling out an extra $175odd bucks.

Bacterium - hahaha! I guess the fact that growing, uuh... "alternative tomatoes" is decriminalised in the ACT, every other bloke 'companion plants' in the veggie patch and keeps the price of vermic up around stoopid levels. But you just gave me a good idea on how to fund the cost of the oven! Who ordered the 'special' pizza??!

Speaking of which, I'll post some more pics, but I'm putting in a special wicking garden bed right next to the oven. Space in the garden will be reserved for uber fresh pizza ingredients.. and possibly also some special herbs.

[Bacterium]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

....Dan I don't think that kind of topping has been suggest yet.

That wicking bed thing is interesting......could use that idea when I extend my veggie patch area.

On the solid reds....yes I successfully used them on my first build here

The weakness in my first oven was about underfloor insulation if I did have it and an insulated door I believe cooking bread the next day would have been possible in it.

...anyway this is about your build.... post away

[david s]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Using solid reds will give you much the same performance as firebricks, but just remember that they have not been designed to heat cycle with fire frequently. The clay used will vary greatly from region to region and you will have no idea if they will be suitable or not. I have seen plenty of fireplaces in Victoria, Australia that had badly spalled solid red bricks, but no doubt there are plenty that can take it too. They should be ok for the dome, but may not be for the floor. If you can afford it use firebrick for the floor at least or if using the reds for the floor make it so they can be easily replaced.

[Dan W]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Thanks Damon and David! This forum's just bloody great isn't it?! Advice from all over the world.

So, how's this for a plan: I've already laid 110mm (4.3inches) of vermicrete. Insulating board is either $100+ in shipping alone, or a 400km drive - so I'm hoping this is enough. Planning to lay a sailor course directly on the 6:1 vermicrete - thinking I will hi-heat mortar this down. Will then cut a red brick floor to sit neatly inside the sailor course - Will lay that on a fine layer of sand (no mortar) and see how it goes. Can then replace it with a proper firebrick floor at a later date if the reds are not cutting the mustard.

Damon, your second build is looking awesome. You mentioned you were happy with your hi heat mortar. What mix are you using (apols if you listed it and I missed it - it's getting late)? Do you know if fireclay goes by another name in Australia? I keep drawing blanks when I ask people in this town.

And one last (and potentially naive) question for the hivemind: Seems like a flue and chimney is a lot of work - if I don't care about smoke in the face at light-up, and a blackened entry arch, is it really necessary? My build is out in the open, and I've actually got some powerlines overhead, and I'm guessing the higher the heat vents, the more likelihood I run of messing with those.

David - re: the Canberra reds - local urban lore (or possibly myth) has it that the Canberra reds are up for the task - I've been told they're the WFO brick of choice amongst the local Italian community. And I'm kind of fond on them as they're an early relic of our town, which turns 100 years young this year. They were amongst the first things made in the establishment of our national capital. For anyone interested in the history: yarralumla brickworks

[david s]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

yarralumla brickworks[/URL]

first up a soldier course is inherently weak because of the vertical joins and a sailor course even worse because they are thinner, but other builders have used this method and got away with it.

A true fireclay as supplied by a refractory or pottery supplier is expensive.i use bricklayers clay which is cheap, but only has around 10% alumina content. It seems to work ok at the temps we use.you should be able to get it at Bunnings.

No you don't need an entry and chimney. In fact there is a huge advantage in not having one. You won't have an entry to work past when using the oven. You can always add one later if you find the smoke an issue.

Sounds like your red bricks could be ok.

[Bacterium]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Dan,
Not sure on supplies, some guys on here talk about ceramics suppliers as well. I think the poor mans mix has a good rap on here. I went for Hi Temp mortar partly due to convenience. I spoke with the local refactory supplier and this product was similar to the mix. There is discussion on here where people experience more cracking compared poor man/ home brew mix.

I'm confident that the one I am using is appropriate for the typical gap thickness I am using it with. I will be keen to see how it goes in mine.
Do have a good read on here as there are a number of discussions on it. I'll email my supplier to get me a tech sheet as the bag just says Hi Temp mortar but I suspect its similar to what brickie in Oz describes used on his WFO

Yeah its a great resource.... the are plenty of cool people/helpful people from around the globe.

[Dan W]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Thanks againg guys.

David, good one - I'll happily ignore a sailor/soldier course and go a normal half brick on it's side for the bottom row.

Thanks for looking up hi temp motar details Damon.

Had a few mm of rain overnight. Went outside at 3am and to my horror discovered a corner of the tarp had blown back exposing a small bit of the vermicrete layer (where the landing will be) exposed to the weather. I laid the mix on Sat am, and hope it had dried sufficiently by last night so that bit of rain won't have weakened it too much. I guess I'll have to heat it nice and slow and long to drive out the extra moisture when I finally get to that point.

[Desmo78]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Hi Dan W,

Good to see another build happening here in Canberra. I was also woken by the 3am rain this morning as yesteday I built the internal arch and was hoping the rain would not affect the work as my cover had also came loose in the wind.

I am using a 1:1:1:3 hi temp mix from locally purchased products from the Gungahlin Homehardware (formally Magnetmart) and Mitchell CSG.

The hard one to work out was the high temp clay but found Blue Circle Builders Clay in a 20 Kilo bag which is 100% Kaolin and the manufacturers specs says for use up to 1570C. I have also used the clay with a sand mix to level out the base for the floor.

Good luck with the build.

JP

[Dan W]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Awesome JP! Thanks for that. Did you find the builders clay at Gungahlin Homehardware or CSG?

[Desmo78]

Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Hi,

The Clay, Cement and Lime in 20Kg bags at Homehardware
Yellow brickies sand at CSG

JP