New (2nd) build in Brisbane

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Oh also..

H E III
EVEN 1200 is a long way. I'm struggling with 600 depth.I II lacks strength. Also using metal stops the need for a centre support getting in the way and is not needed when metal is used.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

You could cut off the reo.... Or still holes through the hebelNot very hard to do. But I would use ticket than 75mm blocks I used 150... Blocks.

I was also thinking of incorporating some reo myself

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

and I just also discovered that due to the spacings they used in the Connex stretcher block, the interior cross supports will interfere with my reo bars ^^
Should be able to get around that by using the end units on those blocks though.

edit: Just rang the Boral factory here in Brisbane. Seems they stopped making Connex here a few years ago and after Austral Masonry bought them out they didn't restart manufacturing.

So I either need an alternative or to have an order shipped interstate :S

edit2: no luck at all the Connex bricks are not available anywhere Gah.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Also just realised that the Hebel blocks are solid and I have reo rod in my concrete so that's not going to work.
I could use Hebel blocks for the other structures though but if I have to pay to get Connex blocks delivered I might as well order the whole lot.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Wow plenty of discussion thankyou all for your replies and advice as always.

First up as promised I have attached a pic of my Marble

Oasiscdm - thanks for your suggestion to use Hebel blocks for the base. It is definitely an option and I had thought about it but thought that the Hebel blocks were expensive - ie. three times the cost of besser blocks. I have not been given pricing so I may be off on that and also the Connex blocks will be dearer than standard grey blocks too. Going to look through your build now.

As for the shape/layout of my base, remember that it is only planned to be 1200x1200 so the back under area won't be that deep (as say compared to a 1.5 to 2 metre deep area)
My reason to have chosen the E shape over the H shape was that the backside would be exposed to the elements and rain could get in and wet any wood stored there, rather with the E shape the back would be sealed.
I have not decided nor bought bricks yet however so still working these things out.
The other option would be an E shape but without the back wall (essentially a lll shape) which would allow access to the wood from both ends but without a common back wall it would not be as strong. I could also do a H shape but with an extra wall down the middle to provide enough support for the Hebel without using bond beams.
I am trying to avoid additional steel beam supports as I have not worked with them and would add extra cost and complexity that I should be able to avoid.

Dave - thanks for the advice about the Chimney. Mine is a standard 6" (150mm) and as I need to run it through the patio I need extra flue anyways so might as well get a black one. Just need to find a Brisbane supplier!

davids - Yeah power panel is what I was going to use. There is also power floor which is much the same but a bit stronger but also has interlocking edges so won't be using them as I would need to cut all of those flush.
I have read about your Hebel cracking however given it was on a mobile installation and one slab, that would be far weaker and prone to stresses than a fixed installation with 2 panels. Moving anything is a HUGE stress factor especially on a trailer. I will also be using calsil board on top of the hebel for insulation.

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hebel is around a third of the weight of standard concrete and I think around a third of the strength. There is a type they call Power Panel which has 5 mm steel rods cast into the centre of each 75mm thick panel. I used Hebel for the supporting slab of my mobile oven which I built around six years ago and it has cracked badly. I used it not only as the supporting slab but also as the insulating slab so maybe the heat from the floor was a bit too much or the bumping around on rough roads. When I rebuild it I will not be using Hebel again.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Didn't litekeeper finish his like that Dave?

[cobblerdave]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

G'day Applor
That seamless oven hearth floor to stand deck look is something I like to see.
I can't think of an oven that has been pulled of on this forum with that look.
Recon though you would have to have a really perfect dome shape to really pull of that seamless look.
One more thing I've discovered is that the UK builders use a black enameled steel chimneys. Now that would be cool. Stainless steel chimneys discolour with heat and use and loose their uniform finish. Might be something for to investigate
As always regards
Dave

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi Steve

nice point about steel - but on a H shape you will need steel lintels front and back to support the Hebel Panel. E shape only the front.

Applor even if you enclose the oven separating the undercover area from the rear I would still have rear access. I filled my base with wood over the weekend and I have a H frame [sort of without rear access]. Even at 600 deep it is difficult to get to the back with an overhang on the hearth [in my case my base and hearth is 1600 deep with a 300 over hang].

In my case due to location the back half of my oven is not accessible, but I minimized the depth of usable space to 600 deep. leaving another 600 wasted. A choice I regret now.

Think about it long and hard before moving forward.

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Applor, It looks like you have most if the ideas sorted out.

You could just use 600 * 200 * 75 mm thick hebel block, and carve it to shape. As cobblerdave said, this stuff cuts easily with or without power tools. The buttress supports at the side of my dome are just hebel sawn and sanded to shape.

I agree with oasiscdm, that a H shape makes good use of space that is accessible. 400 wide and about 1000 deep will make it hard to get to the back.

Have you thought about using steel across the front of the opening?

Steve,

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi Applor

Further to the above I was thinking about your build, you mentioned you are looking at an E shape. Looking at your layout and position. I would look at a H shape so you can access storage from behind. If you go with an E shape you will find it difficult to get storage at the back of the base. I have that issue where I cannot access the back half of the base so it is wasted space.

If you opt for a H base with metal reinforcing [on top to support the Hebel panel] you can store wood front and back of the base. Think about it. I remember mentioning this to someone else in a similar situation to you "new precut kit build in Adelaide". So give it some thought front to back on an oven that is around 1.5m to 2m deep. It is very difficult getting to the back of 750mm so if you have an E shape you need to get to the back of this whole depth.

You have access to the back I would use it constructively

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I agree Dave...... I used 600 x 200 x 150 hebel blocks in my base and too me they were cheaper, easier, quicker to use, no concrete or reinforcing required, just as strong. I used 40 in my build in my next build I will only require about 32.

Hebel panel for my hearth base adding the extra insulation.

Applor I would look at my build if you have not already purchased cement blocks.

The main reason I used hebel was NO ONE ELSE HAD, it was easier to build my base, took a weekend, no extra concrete required and so so so easy to use, as Dave has pointed out.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR ANY FUTURE WFO BUILDERS OUT THERE.

Check out my build click on link and look at posts either side of it

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/51/new-build-werribee-18249-5.html#post144026

[cobblerdave]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

G'day
There are 75mm hebel block available that isn't power panel with the steel reinforcing in it. Easy to lay just glue it down. Easy to shape. Heck my oven door is carved from the stuff. You can saw it, rasp it, chisel it, power tools are very messy and dusty though.
The hebel web site is designed for the pros so its hard to get information from it without a log in, but if you go out to the mob at Salsbury they are a lot of help.
Regards dave

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I used 150 blocks that included a bond beam around the top, this gives enough strength to support hebel PowerFloor board, as an oven base. I also used steal supports for added strength.

Perhaps you could do a bond beam on top of dry stacked blocks. Only the vertical corners are reinforced and concrete filled in my base.


My Build link:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ane-19976.html

Yes I am familiar with your build as it has been a source of information and inspiration for me as yours is one of the only builds that has used Hebel panels for your hearth. A very solid design!
My only changes from that is that by using full size blocks (dry stacked) to create a base exactly 1200x1200, my Hebel panels will be flush with the sides and rendered along with the blocks to hopefully achieve a seamless exterior finish up to the top of the hearth.

My current base block plan is essentially an 'E' shape to provide strength through the middle. This will leave a span of 400mm between the legs of the 'E' which shouldn't be too much for the Hebel to support.
Looking at doing 2 layers of 75mm Hebel, so a total of 4 panels (1200x600) which will sit on top of the entire 'E' structure and flush with the outer edges of the blocks.

My only current dilemma is working out how to finish the top around the dome as I was looking at doing it at the same height as the oven cooking deck to get that nice flat look. Ideally I need another 75mm layer of Hebel around the outside of the oven which will be difficult to shape (I kind of need a Hebel panel without the steel re-enforcing) which I would then tile.
50mm insulation + 40mm deck = 90mm.
75mm Hebel + 10mm of tiles = 85mm.
Would work out pretty damn well imo!

I should also add I am planning it to be a corner build with the oven angled 45 degrees to face directly in towards the entertainment area, so I will make one of the corner 'E' legs a bit shorter and cut the Hebel at a 45 degree angle.

Lastly, I have already sourced my prep area bench. A lovely piece of Marble - 1600x600 in size and a very solid and generous 40mm thickness! White with grey/black veining. It is 2nd hand (previous owner used it for the same thing!) but being Marble can be polished/re-finished etc if I need.
Will post a picture of it tomorrow.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Based on that 150 blocks. Plus concrete to fill cavity, I'm wondering about comparison price between hebel blocks that I used for my base. 600 200 150.only needed 40 of them and could have built my base with less I believe around 32.

Might actually try and work that cost difference out