Happy Yeast!

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Peter's method isn't so much about hydration as maximizing the wet time of the dough. That is REALLY obvious in his whole wheat bread book where he has you making soakers for almost every bread. For some reason the epoxy mixing term doesn't grab me but it makes sense due to the A/B nature. The reason he splits it is twofold. First if you only wet the dough very little other than enzymes are activated (yes bad bacteria are activated but they only have twelve hours or so and can't have too much effect). The enzymes break down the starch into sugar and a few odds and ends that will give flavor. The preferment is just flour and water and yeast and gets a healthy population of yeast for the final dough but also provides extended development of various chemicals for flavor (aldehydes, ketones, alcohols, etc.) As a result the dough is much more complex than a dough made from the same ingredients - the next morning. The sugar in the soaker gives the yeast a burst of food and they can finish the bread quickly and predictably. So you get a lot of bang for the buck (or flavor for the commercial yeast). And you get really good bread.

Higher hydration is not so much about flavor as rustic crumb and texture. It especially pays off in pain l'ancienne. That recipe is worth trying and working on. Don't even try to slash it!

Bake On!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: Happy Yeast!

The Pain l' Ancienne is one of my favorites, and it's the one I was having headaches slashing. I took a test batch over to a friend who does a wicked Bouillabaisse. Along with my wife, sister in-law, brother in-law, and father in-law (all French) she had her next door neighbors also French to dinner. I asked for critical review and was met with raves. They were amazed at the crumb and taste. I love this particular bread, it's quite forgiving and easy..

I have found that although I have a digital scale, a $50 Escali, that seems to work great within 10 or so grams, it's not great when I'm trying to get a mesurment on 4 grams of yeast or 11 grams of salt this scale just isn't accurate enough for these weights. I've been splitting the 7 gram yeast packets by eye. This seems to be fine as far as the yeast goes but I can see and taste the difference of a few grams of yeast.

Amazing what a few grams of yeast makes.

Chris

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

My original scale does only 5 gram increments and I found that too crude so I bought a scale that does tenths of grams. Big help for small ingredients.

RE: l'ancienne. Peter doesn't recommend slashing it. I have seen it done, but it doesn't seem to accomplish much - just let the skin you did manage to make relax and let hte loaf ooze to the sides and make a ciabatta like loaf. Good loaf and a good representative of what retarding dough can accomplish.
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Re slashing l'ancienne, I somehow missed this.. Thanks.
Re. gram scale, do I remember that you have a Soehnle Ultra? If you have any recomendations and or reviews regarding a scale for the light stuff, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Chris

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

At the time I wrote it I couldn't remember the name of the scale. Your memory worked better than mine. Yeah, Soehnle Ultra. Pretty neat. Comes with a 100 gram weight to use for calibrating it (nice feature). Has the normal tare function. Seems very consistent and reliable. .1 gram accuracy is beyond normal needs but allows you to make really oddball batches (like a fractional loaf) I think it is a fine scale!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Thanks Again Jay!

Chris

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

I made my "normal" five pound batch of sourdough boules yesterday and, after dealing with cooler temperatures over the winter and spring it was a joy to see my yeast happy and in the zone. (My starter has a strong preference for warmer temperatures - like 75!)

The bread is very simple. 100 grams of 100% starter expanded with 200 grams of water and 200 grams of flour (100 whole wheat, 100 bread flour) overnight. Then expanded to 2.5 kilos with 1220 grams bread flour, 780 of water, 45 grams of salt for a final hydration of 70%. Hand mixed followed by stretch and fold. 3 hour bulk ferment, only 1 1/2 hours after forming.

Happy yeast is so much fun!
Jay

Jay

am i trying to understand the last part of the recipe? you do your stretch and fold then bulk ferment for 3 hours, then form loaves and then bake 1 1/2 hour later? What do you use to form the loaves? would a bowl lined with a floured tea towel work?

toby

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

one more quick question...Do you just do 1 stretch and fold or more?

thanks

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

The three hours typically includes the stretch and folds. I.e. I typically form loaves about 3 to 3 1/2 hours after I mix the dough. Stretch and folds are done at 20-30 minute, 1 hour, and 1 1/2 hour marks during that 3 hour period. The final rise ranges from about 1 1/2 hours to 4 hours depending on the temperature. If you are using commercial yeast you can have pretty predictable times. With sourdough the timing is much less consistent. The times i use are for really happy sourdough at say 75 degrees F (and your sourdough and time may well be different).

WRT number of stretch and folds, it depends on how the dough feels. I want it to feel worked and show some character. Sometimes the dough is happy and one is enough. Other times it I give it two or even three stretch and folds. I do that with wet hands so they won't stick. And wetter doughs tend to get/need more s&f's. The bread in the picture that led this topic received (as I recall) 3 s&f at a half hour. One s&f at one hour, and one more at 1 1/2. The dough easily passed the windowpane test (which IMO is not critical - it should be close to passing but I don't worrry about it too much. RE: # of s&f: When you dump the dough from the bowl it will sort of ooze out and form a hockey puck if it is very wet. After an s&f it should be much more firm and stand taller. If it does and you feel like you mixed it well (i.e. worked all the dough) then that is enough. If it still seems flaccid and slack, give it another s&f or two or...The dough needs to react to what you are doing to it.

I use alder baskets (which gives the coil like appearance) and plastic baskets that emultate the look of the alder. I use them because I like the spiral look. A stainless bowl and a towel will work. If you go over about 66 percent hydration on bread flour you will probably have a hard time keeping shape if you try to proof it "upright" but you can proof a batard on a counter in a couch make with a tea towel. Note: Linen works better than cotton. And yes, it should be floured.

Probably better to use lots of flour until you learn what you can get away with. Flopping a loaf onto a peel or stone and lifting the towel to find it glued to the loaf (or taking the top of the loaf) is not a pleasant experience and it invariably deflates the loaf. Err on using a lower hydration than your utlimate goal and more flour until you have some experience.

Good Luck!
Jay

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

thanks, I am going to give it a try, starting tonight, so i can bake in the morning!!

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Sorry to keep asking more questions. I can at the loaf forming stage, would i be able to form them into baggettes?

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Of course! Most bread is named more for the form than the dough. Baguettes have real advantages for beginning because all you need is a tea towel. But making them pretty can be a bit tricky, but...sure. Batards as well. Baking time will be a bit shorter. I haven't done a baguette with my normal boule dough but I would guess about 35 minutes at about 425 would be about right. Check the temp at 30 minutes if it is getting brown.

Good luck!
Jay

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Well it is started, 30 minutes into the 3 hour mark. Just completed first S&F and you could tell a difference after it.

[meco211]

Re: Happy Yeast!

here is a couple of pictures of the starter that was expanded and sat overnight. And one of the dough after first S&F at 30 minutes

[texassourdough]

Re: Happy Yeast!

Hi Toby!

Quick question to make sure... Are you using real sourdough culture or commercial yeast? It makes a diff what the right answer is...

In the first picture it looks like your preferment may have risen (above the current level) and is collapsing. IF this is valid it tells you that it is past its peak activity. Not a disaster, but it does imply the subsequent rise will be less robust than is possible. The goal is to catch the preferment at the peak. You ideally want to catch it at the point just after it peaked (for that is identifiable). At that point the foam will be bulging up on the edges (convex) and will just have begun to collapse (concave/depressed) in the center. With all that explanation I will now admit it is inconclusive on your photo for I suspect the "ring was from stirring because it is not very uniform - and the surface of the preferment looks pretty flat. In that case it may not have peaked.

You can "control" the time needed to peak by adjusting the temperature or the expansion ratio of the preferment. Warmer is faster (though I alsways just use room temp - whatever that is). And less expansion (say adding 150 grams of water and 150 of flour to 100 grams of starter instead of 200 of each) will make it be faster. Similarly, keeping the expansion amounts the same (say 200) and cutting the starter from 100 to 80 grams will mean it has a higher expansion ratio and will take longer. But...all that is refinement for the future. The photo of the dough looks reasonable so...

Looks like you are well on your way and while it is too early to tell in the second photo how it is rising, it looks appropriate so all should be well.

Look forward to later reports.
Jay