bread video

[CanuckJim]

Spring

James,

Think you've got it. That looks very fine indeed: good spring, shape. How was the crumb?

Jim

[james]

What do you think?

Jim,

Here she is. The crumb was moist, and more dense than a ciabatta. It was nice and chewy, with pretty good texture.

What does your baker's eye think? I would really like to hear.

James

[DrakeRemoray]

I just have to say that this entire thread is a little disconcerting. It implies that I did not need that big old stone oven I built to get excellent bread...I already own some dutch ovens I could have used!

Just, please, don't figure out a way to make a great pizza in a dutch oven!!

Drake

[CanuckJim]

Baker's Eye

James,

My baker's eye says that one was a triumph. The hole structure is random, excellent and consistent. The crumb looks light and fairly moist, which it should be. You've achieved superior spring, which is a result of oven management, hydration and moisture. I'm trying the recipe tomorrow, but I do NOT expect such superb results on the first go.

I'm going with half hard bread and half AP flour, because I'm looking for a lighter crust, something like French bread dough yields. There will be no pictures unless they won't be too embarrassing. You've set the bar quite high.

Congrats,
Jim

Drake,

Problem is, you can't make other types of excellent bread without that oven.

Jim

[james]

A huge red dutch oven

Drake,

I am having a vision of this huge, red dutch oven cooking loaves of bread and pizza in your backyard. Too strange; never mind.

I've been messing around with recipes for a single loaf a bread for a mid-week meal for years and years. My wife got tired of me taking brick bricks to other people's house to experiment with different electric ovens. Not even I will fire an oven for just one loaf to go with my risotto and Tuscan white beans for dinner. One of the interesting things about this technqiue if how the dough works. I am doing everything in a mixing bowl -- all of which translates over to the brick oven.

The ice-water fermention over night, hydration, no kneading, gentle dough handling, careful folding, et al seem to work as a basic dough technique for larger volumes in your brick oven. If nothing else, it's always fun learning new things.
James

[Les]

It does work!!!

I have never made bread in my life. This receipt is awesome. David, I think you were right. I throttled down the temp to 475 deg. like you suggested, placed it in the middle of the oven, and there was no burn. It is a mess like your pictures proved. Following my wife?s suggestion, I sprayed the pot with PAM. The bread fell right out. It taste great, the wife gave it a big thumbs up, and the dog liked it as well ( I don?t know what that means because she licks her own ass).

Les

[Les]

??

I just went back and looked at everybody's bread. I don't have the air pockets that I see. Unfortunately, I am more on the Wonder bread side I live at 4,800 ft. above sea level, could that be the cause? If so, what do I do to achieve your results? Or is the texture of mine a good thing?

[redbricknick]

Hmm. Interesting. I just had a fascinating conversation with a local baker about bread weather. Do you have a humidifier? Try proofing your dough in a humid atmosphere and see if there is any difference. If you have a dehumidifier, you can put it in a room with the humidifier and have a humidity death match... How did the bread taste? I have to be honest, I tried the recipe a week or so ago in a pot I got from Ross dress for less for thirty bucks ( kitchenaid, rated to 500 degrees, blue) and had spectacular results. The crust. Oh the crust. Is it possible to make bread that is only crust? Next time I bake ancienne baugettes I'm going to make them S shaped to get more crusty ends.. I fear the crouchete bread. It's too easy. I almost feel ashamed explaining to people how to make it. I have another batch in the fridge right now.

[james]

Don't do this at home

In my quest for the perfect one-at-a-time loaf, I tried oiling my stainless mixing bowl before returning my shaped dough ball for the final proofing. My thinking was that I could flip the boule into the hot enameled pan without it sticking to the mixing bowl, and start with a perfectly shaped dough for the bake. Wrong.

I got the dough out pretty smoothly, and the boule plopped into the pan in pretty good shape.

But when I looked at it 30 minutes later, to take off the lid, the crust was smooth, hard and shiny/oily. Not a nice rich brown -- more Wonderbread brown. It wasn't crackly and it seemed to keep the bread from doing a nice oven spring. The holes and crumb structure just weren't there.

Nick, I didn't have the crust!

Any theories here? Does olive oil stop the steam from working and allowing the crust to carmelize?

I'm not doing that again. Tonight I am back to 80% hydration, all AP flour and no olive oil. It's harder to work with the dough, but we'll see.
James

[dmun]

My oiled plastic dish experiment was not a success, for a number of reasons. I've been reading some on this topic, and I think that the second rising on a cloth is important, and you need some kind of parting agent, that, unlike flour, is going to separate it from the cloth. The guys in the NYT video used wheat bran. Other choices might be semonolina, sesame seeds, or, this discussion suggested rice flour, which is raw rice chopped up in a blender or food processer.

The oiled bowl keeps oxygen away from the dough ball, which seems to be needed for the crust formation.

[redbricknick]

I did my final proofing in a stainless bowl yesterday, and covered the sucker with oil. Then I did something dumb. I dumped the dough ball into my pot, and looking at the misshapen mess at the bottom, I decided to reshape it. I dumped it out of the pot back onto the breadboard, flattened it, and did a three fold, shaped it into a ball, toasted side out. Thirty minutes later I took the lid off and had a nice looking boule. Ten more minutes without the lid and it turned out great. I had originally intended to give this loaf to my friend for her birthday, but what with the screw ups and whatnot, I didn't want to risk giving her bad bread. Best crust yet.

[Les]

I made my second loaf today, and it came out excellent. I did up the yeast a bit, and I achieved more pockets in the bread; that is what I was looking for. The crust is awesome! I read that some are making balls and folding the mix, mine is so gooey that all I can do is throw it in the pot. I try to form it, but that's impossible, the texture is perfect for a craft project. At the end of the day, it's pretty good bread.

Les...

[CanuckJim]

Pot Bread

Guys,

Give me some time. I think I've found a few "solutions" that might help us all out on this one. Give me a day or so. Still outside with the big stone work.

Jim

[maver]

bread solutions

We'll give you time, Jim. I'll add this to the list of minor issues with this recipe - it's hard to get the bread right side up. I abandoned the use of a kitchen towel for the rise because at the high hydration the dough sticks like crazy. I've gone to use of a plastic container with a lid for the mixing and initial rise. After the long rise I shape the dough on the floured counter, then add flour first, then wheat bran to the bottom of the original plastic container and return it seam side down for the second rise. My problem is that whenever I try to dump it into the pot, the dough sticks so much to the sides that it completes a roughly 360 degree roll by the time it hits the pot and is back seam side down in the dutch oven. I have not tried, like Redbrick, to reshape it at that point - once it is in the pot it's over, I just bake it. Is anyone having better luck at handling this loose dough? I think I'm going to try putting bran and flour around the sides before the second rise to see if that will grease the skids a little better.

[james]

A lot more flour? I've used oil, which makes it easy to put the loaf in the dutch oven, but isn't good for the crust. And I've used two fingers to gently remove the sticky dough ball from the stainless bowl, trying doing as little damage as possible. That seems to be working best. If you use cloth, and your dough sticks, it can get messy.

I guess my next experiement is to use LOTS of flour in the bottom of stainless bowl.

Nick, are you pre-heating your dutch oven? I think you should. I even put my infrared thermometer on my dutch oven to make sure it was as the 450?F I was looking for. Once you dump your boule into the hot dutch oven, you can't touch it -- it starts to sizzle a little. I think the hot oven is the source of the steam.

A funny aside -- my cruddy little Italian convection oven isn't even close to giving even heat. I poked around with my infrared and one side is 25?F hotter than the other, and the bottom is about 75?F hotter than the top. Ouch, no wonder I have trouble with the thing.

James