My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Hi Who Dat,

I tried Dat, but it kept me from using my oven and I just hate Dat, so I stopped doing Dat.
A fresh loaf and a hot fire, I'm loving it.

I agree with dat statement. Nothing tastes and smells better than a fresh loaf right out of the WFO. However, it is not possible for me to do that in the middle of the week with my schedule. Keeping some loaves in the freezer allow me to enjoy some of my bread in the middle of the week rather than waiting until the weekend for a fresh loaf. The main reason why I brought up about freezer as storage for my bread is because it gives me the best result for tasting after fresh bread. Keeping bread in the refrigerator was not good at all because refrigerator tends to suck moist out of the loaf. Keeping bread on the counter at room temp will make the bread super stale and make it extremely chewy. Hey, if I win dat lottery, I will only eat dat fresh bread as well.

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

My only comment (and it is not criticism) is that IF you are aspiring to Tartine loaves, your loaves are still light. Chad's loaves are very dark. If you want that look you probably need to load at a marginally higher temp. How dark to bake is a personal preference and while I tend to prefer slightly darker, there is nothing wrong with that bake that I can see.

Jay, you are absolutely correct with your assessment of my bread. Chad’s Country Tartine Bread is a lot darker than mine. However, I think I could solve the problem by baking my loaves in the WFO a little longer. I think I would burn the bottom of the bread if I load the dough at a hotter temp. One main thing that I learned from Chad’s technique that he is not a slave to internal temperature 212 F of the loaf. It seems like both Daniel Wing and Peter Reinhart’s instruction are very strict with the internal temperature because both suggest you to take out the bread out once it gets to 212 f. However, Chad removed the loaves out of the oven just based on appearance and sound when you tap on the bread rather than internal temperature. I think I am a slave to the internal temperature benchmark because that is what I first believed in and I need to let that go. One key thing that I forgot to mention is that I retarded the dough overnight in my garage which is about 55-60 F. I just don’t have enough space in my 40 degree F refrigerator to retard of my dough. I am thinking perhaps that may contributed my dough not being as dark as Chad’s.

I baked 24 loaves on Friday which I did with two loads and I gave most of them away to a some nuns at a convent. My wife finds that tartine's crust is too hard. However, my daughter and I just think it is prefect for soft cheese and pate. My two years old son love eat the crumb with his tomatoe basil soup. Perhaps, the crust may be too hard because I am using high gluten flour which contain 14% protein. I am trying to get my hands on fresh ground flour which is kinda of hard find in New Orleans area.

[SCChris]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Tu, I am continually reminded of the bread talent here at FB. most recently Faith with her Croissants, you and and Bill with your large batches of bread and Jay, as always with his instructive insight.

Sincerely

Chris

[Laurentius]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Hey Dat,

How much flour did you use to make 24 loves?

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Hey Dat,

How much flour did you use to make 24 loves?

I used about 8,400 gram of flour (which includes 7,250 gram of bread flour, 1,150g of whole wheat flour) with 82% hydration. Each dough weigh about about 650g before loading into the WFO.

[Laurentius]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

By hand or mixer?

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

By hand or mixer?

All by hand. Just simple stretch and fold.

It is a method developed by Chad Robertson.

Chad Robertson masterclass i Meyers Madhus - YouTube

[Laurentius]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Thanks Dat,

Yes, its the same technique that I use, but I've never made that many loaves at once.

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I like my Univex 30 quart for loads that large.

Laurentius, Missed out on the 20 quart Hobart...price is still good but more then I want to go. such is life.

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

A few thousand bucks for a mixer. Forget that, I am prefectly happy with my clear plastic buckets and my right arm. I would rather use that money for another WFO....Barrel Vault style this time around.

[texassourdough]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I LOVE hand mixing. Only way I do it now! (except for weird things that are more of a batter, like Pan Doro).

Beautiful bake! Enjoy your cool garage while you can for soon you won't be able to retard in the garage!

Bake On!
Jay

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I LOVE hand mixing. Only way I do it now! (except for weird things that are more of a batter, like Pan Doro).

Beautiful bake! Enjoy your cool garage while you can for soon you won't be able to retard in the garage!

Bake On!
Jay

I know, it is so rewarding from hand mixing. Of course, it is so easy to mix with high hydration %. I am not looking forward to the summer because of heat and the humidly. We both pretty much have the same problem with heat. I may have to buy another refrigerator just to retard my dough and storage my flour. When summer comes, I will try to bake some smaller amount of bread in gas oven because Chad Robertson and you proved that great bread can come out of gas oven. Jay, I am not going to lie, the bread you baked from your gas oven looks better than 99% than the breads I see on this forum. It just proves that you need to know what you are doing rather than just having a WFO. I first thought that you need to have a WFO to bake awesome bread but not anymore. However, I still glad and very happy that I built my WFO.

[texassourdough]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Hi Dat!

The reason I bake in an indoor oven (usually electric but I have and use both gas and electric) is that in my experience the cloche gives a prettier crust than I can get in a WFO unless I make big batches - and I would rather not make 15 pound batches. I do occasionally but I won't do a small batch in my WFO because I am not happy with the look.

BTW, congrats on working with 82% hydration! Most struggle with that and you seem to have resolved that issue quickly! That contributes significantly to your great crumb and oven spring! (As you know!)

Good work!
Jay

[banhxeo76]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Now that I am comfortable with my technique and have a better feel for fermentation (Thanks for a lot of people on Forno Bravo and especially to Jay), I want to try baking hearth loaves with better flour. So, I went back and read "The Bread Builder" again and it is just amazing that I was able to understand a lot more this time around. One main thing I got out of "The Bread Builder" this time around is that the majority of the bread flour produced in this country are high on protein (12% to 14%) and low on ash (.48%) content because that is just nature of the wheat that grow here in North America. However, in Western Europe, the bread flour is lower on protein with higher ash content and I think most of us can agree that the bread in Europe is better than the one in the states. From what I understand, higher amount ash is ideal for long fermentation which in my opinion, is the best method for making tasty hearth loaves. Okay, then how the heck am I going to get that type of flour within reasonable price?

There is flour supplier out in San Francisco that goes by the name of Giusto’s which “the Bread Builder” raved about and Giusto’s makes similar flour that you find in Europe. As matter of fact, Chad Robertson used flour from Giusto’s to make his classic Tartine Country Bread. This could explain why Northern California’s bakeries are the best in the country because those bakeries are within reasonable distance to premium flour supplier. Giusto’s also sell its flour online and its bread flour cost about $40 for 30lbs & another $41 for shipping to New Orleans. (Cost $2.36 per lb.)

Another flour supplier that carries a similar flour that is located in Vermont is of course, King Arthur Artisan. This could also explain why there so many good bakeries in the Northeastern as well. King Arthur sells its European-Style Artisan Bread flour for $8 for 3lbs and another $6 for shipping to New Orleans. (Cost $4.6 per lbs.)

No supermarket in New Orleans area stocks this particular flour on their selves

So, I called up one distributor in New Orleans who supplies most of bakery need this area and they just so happen to sell King Arthur organic artisan bread flour and it has the protein and ash content that I been looking for. 50 lbs bag costs about $45 which is more than reasonable since shipping is included. However, $45 per bag is based one whole pallet. They don’t carry these item on their stock and they only special order them. I told them that I just only want one bag so that I can test the flour before I am committed to buy one whole pallet.

I had to set up an account with them before they can get me a price for one 50lb bag. It could cost more per bag because I only request for one 50 lbs bag. They called me back and let me know there is only one customer that ordered that particular flour and they had to remove one bag from that customer’s order of one pallet because the bag was ripped. They were willing to sell me that ripped bag for $20 at first. I gladly took that offer on the phone. When I showed up in person and more than willing to pay $20, they decided to donate the flour to me. Mannnnn, life is good.

Well, this journey is just getting started!

I like to give a shout out to those workers in the flour warehouse who have the tendency to rip bag of flour by accident.

[SCChris]

Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Tu,
The last 50# bag I bought was $34 through a local LA bread baking group. It was Central Milling Organic Artisan Bakers Craft, a blend of hard red wheat, 11.5% protein. The volume AP bags at Costco and Whole Foods have been reported to be from Central Milling, at least here in Cal. The 25Kg bag of Antimo Caputo pizza flour I bought from a local WF pizza restaurant. I asked if he’d sell me a bag and he gave me a great price, so my point is don’t overlook local retail bakers or warehouse stores as sources. WJW gets his at Costco or Sam’s Club or some such..

I should add the LA bread baking group orders a or several pallets at a time, once a month. Very nice people..

Chris