Yet another big bake.

[thamnophis]

Re: Yet another big bake.

Thanks Jay. I think I'll set up some experiments this week to test variables. I am particularly interested in proofing times and different methods of humidifying the oven.

I'm baking in a home made vault style oven (with a single layer of brick) that is maybe 42 inches by 34 inches: I could squeeze maybe 24 round loaves in at a time, though I typically bake 12-16 at a time. I fire the oven every Thursday till the soot burns off then let the wood burn down, spread the coals and close it up for the night. Next day about noon we rake the ash out and wait for the temps to drop to 450F. We mop the floor with a big, wet mop - usually trying to get the temp down.

We can get 4 bakes in before the temps drop too far - 360F. Then we reheat with small fire and bake 1-4 more times.

Thanks, Joe

[texassourdough]

Re: Yet another big bake.

That helps, Joe!

You have enough dough in the oven. You should NOT be suffering appreciably from oven humidity if you are baking a dozen or more loaves (and are using a reasonably sealing door which I assume you are from your temp the next day). (I also assume it is reasonably sealed for the same reason.)

As a test...of humidity and proofing... Take one loaf and bake it indoors in your Dutch oven. I am forced to guess it will be pale from overproofing (since your oven SHOULD have enough humidity). If it comes out gold and the ones in the WFO don't then we will know it is not the proofing!

The other big issue is oven temp/management. My first concern is your oven is pretty light if it is only one layer of brick with no extra refractory so it can't hold a lot of heat. When you load 15 to 20 pounds of dough you are asking the refractory to hold a temp in the 450 range and to boil off about 2 to 2.5 pounds of water. That alone will require about 2500 Btu. Heating the flour and the water in the dough to 210 or so will require another 2000 Btu or so. If you have 500 pounds of refractory at 450 oF, the dough will drop the temp of ALL the refractory (assuming euqlized) by 36 degrees - to about 415 degrees. (NOTE: it is my experience that a full batch of bread knocks the equalized temp down by about 40 degrees - about the same). And note: the temp drops a lot more than that at first - knocking the air temp in the oven WAY down. The refractory has to pump heat back in to get UP to 415. With bread in the oven it would not get back that hot - probably be closer to 380 and then bounce on up to 415 with equalization. With lean dough you need to be a lot hotter. I don't know any serious WFO baker who targets lean dough boules for less than 525 or so at loading. And don't use a really wet mop. It should be pretty dry. Water really knocks the temp of the oven down.

Good luck!
Jay

PS: it is okay to mist the oven with a fine spray if you want to both before and after you load to increase the humidity a bit but it shouldn't be necessary if you are fully loaded. BUT, it should be FINE SPRAY and not too much (but you can be more aggressive if you go to a higher loading temp!)

[thamnophis]

Re: Yet another big bake.

OK, sounds like I have some experimentation to do this week!

Maybe one of my problems is that we prepare the dough in some fairly extreme conditions. In the winter it can be down right chilly while a couple weeks ago I noticed it was 98F in the house. Its hard to get consistent results when with these variables.

Another issue is the different types of bread we bake. The multigrain and cranberry pecan boules seem to brown quickly and get too dark if the WFO is above 450F. So this week we'll plan to get the baguettes then the batards in first and while the oven is at 525F and also use the dutch ovens with some of the same dough to compare.

I wonder if there is a way to monitor the air temps in the oven after loading? Currently I use a couple IR temp guns which are 20F different from each other (!). It is certainly possible that the temps are dipping after loading. It seems we're generally fighting to get the temps down before the dough over proofs though - timing is tough with the different proofing temps.

Anyway, thanks much for the input. Gives me some good stuff to mull over. I'll update with a new thread later.

Joe

[texassourdough]

Re: Yet another big bake.

The normal baking pattern for WFOs is to stage the baking, potentially beginning with flatbreads at temps as high as 700 or so, then baguettes and other lean dough, small loaves that cook quickly, then moving to lean larger loaves that take longer, and so on with the sweetened doughs coming last. In your case you would probably want to bake in two batches. The first at the higher temp of 550 or so and the oven would probably equalize pretty close 475 (which is an easy adjustment to 450 as you indicated) for the final loaves.

I don't know of any decent way to really measure air temp in the oven but I guarantee you it drops a lot (as does the hearth temp) when the wet dough hits the hearth and stem fills the oven. As an aside, 2 pounds of water creates about 45 cubic feet of steam which is enough to flush your oven out about three times!