Slash is VERY wide

[Les]

OK - I have time to play with my sourdough starter (about damn time I get to play) I've used a lot of info from the pros here (@Jay). Here is a new dilemma - my 1/4 inch slash turned into a 1 inch wide gash. I want to control the design so is there any tricks? Don't get me wrong, its very cool to see the results of the dough doing its thing, I would just like to control it a bit more (think flames, words, etc..).

[TropicalCoasting]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

dont see the problem??
You slashed just before the oven?

[Les]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

dont see the problem??
You slashed just before the oven?

Yea, cut it with a razor about 1/4 inch deep. When the bread came out the cut was 3/4 to 1 1/4 inch wide. How can this be controlled?

[jms]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Bread Scoring with Confidence | Weekend Bakery

It takes a lot of practice and knowing exactly how the dough rises to be able to do scoring decoratively. Make more bread

[SCChris]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

The slash will expand according to the oven spring and the number of slashes. The oven spring can be controlled by the final proof, even to the extent where you don't have much. Under proofed by just a bit will often show a bit of tearing at the end of the slash, over proofed will expand the slashes by ever decreasing amounts as the dough becomes increasingly over proofed. Over proofing will reduce the sugars in the dough due to the consumption of these by the yeast and bacteria in the sourdough culture and the sourness of the loaf will relatively increase.

Les, generally you're wanting to limit the expansion of the slashes but more specifically, what are you wishing to do?

Pictures?

Chris

[gmchm]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

It's not about the slash. It's about the flavor. Gary

[Les]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Thanks all. Chris, I determined I don't know jack about making bread. The light colored loaf has the wide slashes (same pattern as the dark one). The oven temp had dropped more that I was shooting for (450). I think it went in at 420 (but the temp dropped below 400) and I had to leave it in there for an hour. The second loaf went in higher than I wanted (maybe 480) and It was in for 1/2 an hour. Also, what is the best method of getting these things off the peel without disturbing the loaf? I am doing the second rise on the peel but after an hour they want to stick. I have to reshape a little bit but its making the bread pretty dense.

[SCChris]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Jay and Faith are my "goto" folks for all things bread. For proofing in place, I recommend proofing right on parchment paper. It'll hold up as long as you don't push beyond the 500F mark too far and it’ll slide right off the peel. When proofing floured linen works like a champ and so does cotton as long as you don't try something like a terrycloth towel, I use rice flour for all proofing, it seems to release best for me.

The slashes look a bit ragged remember that the speed of slashing and getting a clean slash go hand in hand. I think I remember someone telling me, when slashing avoid being tentative, make your mark.. The difference in slash width for the two loaves will be in some part due to the bake temps it may also relate to the proofing times.

Sourdough Bread has more variables than just about anything,
My bread starts about 2 days ahead by bringing the starter up to full speed by feeding it twice a day.
The Levain takes about 8-12 hours just enough time to be mildly sour and to fully populate the mixture with the culture where it’s ready mix into the final dough. At the same time the Levain is maturing I have my whole wheat, rye and spelt soaking in the fridge so the enzymes have time to make sugar from the carbohydrates and add additional happy flavors.

The levain and the soaker are mixed with about 85F water and then roughly mixed to hydrate the remaining flour containing 2% salt. This mixture should be about 75-78F it is then allowed 90 minutes autolyse.

I then bring the dough together with some aggressive stretching and folding then rest and stretch and fold every 30 minutes until the dough feels right most of the time this is twice more. The total time between mixing all of the components and shaping is four hours.

I then portion and preshape, rest 30 minutes and final shape, proof 2.5 to 4 hours and bake. If I have two batches the second batch goes, shaped, into the fridge to proof inside a very large ziplock storage bag. These retarded loaves are removed from the fridge about an hour before baking.

Total time from bringing the started up to speed and bread, about two and a half days.

That’s my current bread bake process, but it evolves.

Sincerely

Chris

[SCChris]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Les, try putting an inverted stainless bowl over your baking loaf for the first 20 minutes of the bake. What this does is to contain the steam and allow the exterior of the loaf to gelatinize and still allow the maximizing of the oven spring. You should find that your crusts are thicker, more defined, and you should be able to get that nice glossy, roasted, mahogany/chestnut color.

Chris

[Les]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Les, try putting an inverted stainless bowl over your baking loaf for the first 20 minutes of the bake. What this does is to contain the steam and allow the exterior of the loaf to gelatinize and still allow the maximizing of the oven spring. You should find that your crusts are thicker, more defined, and you should be able to get that nice glossy, roasted, mahogany/chestnut color.

Chris

That sounds like a great plan. I know Jay uses cloches which solves a multitude of problems. What temp do you shoot for? From everything I've compiled it seems like 450 is the number.

Thanks Chris...

[SCChris]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

Most of the WFO bread information that I see relates to larger volumes of bread and the load temps typically mentioned are 500 to 550F and this is most often for boules. This may seem quite high but I think you'll find that the bread benefits and you'll adjust to a shorter bake. I'd test loading at 500F and pull the cloche off at 15 minutes. This should give you a chance to check the bottom and make adjustments if needed. If you find the bottom baking too fast, put a sheet of aluminum foil underneath, and later in the bake you can flip the loaf. By removing the cloche at 15 minutes you'll sacrifice a bit of crust benefit but you have the opportunity to tune the rest of the bake. After one or two more bakes you'll have it.. Remember that the shape of the bread being baked relates to the temperature of bake as does the content of the loaf. Baguettes bake hotter than boules and chibatta bakes hotter still and conversely whole wheat flour breads bake cooler than AP or Bread flours breads. In general the smaller the bread the hotter the oven.

Chris

[SCChris]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

I figured I'd pass along one of the most talented masters of decorative slashing that I've found. For those of you who are down under, Pip, is currently baking for Jocelyn's provisions in the Brisbane area. Pip has extensive experience with WFOs, SD levain and fresh milled grain.. Spectacular breads and photos.

http://instagram.com/pipsbread

Chris

[Les]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

That's insane! Wonder what the guy can do with a paint brush?

[rsandler]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

A few posts/months ago in this thread you were asking about how to get the loaf off the peel cleanly. While I played around with semolina for a while, I've taken to just putting the loaves on parchment. I'll generally line loaves up on a long piece of parchment, then take a pair of scissors and cut the sheet apart so each loaf is on its own piece. Slide the loaf, parchment and all onto the peel, then slide it back off into the oven where you want it. As a bonus, I can get all my loaves out and slashed inside before going outside and opening the oven door.

[Les]

Re: Slash is VERY wide

That sounds like a plan - thanks!