Nice bread slash

[james]

Hey, this is getting fun. I have been following the dual recommendations of final proofing in banneton and the slightly lower heat and longer baking time for my hearth loaf, and it's getting better.

I kneaded the dough late last night (about 65% hydration) and shaped it, and then left it in the refrigerator overnight. I let it rise this morning, then pushed out the air bubble, and reshaped the dough ball (trying to be serious about the letter fold and seal), let it rise again. Shaped the boule according to Jim's video, put it in the banneton for about an hour; did the four slashes and baked (in a dutch oven in this case, but this applies to brick ovens). I left it in a more moderate oven for 45-50 minutes.

These are my best grigne yet -- though still not up to the standard of Jim's great boules, but at least it's getting better; and I guess that's what counts. And the crust is thick, dense and crunchy; which is how I like it.

What do you think Jim?
James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,

Congrats. You're definitely on the right track. Next time, try holding your blade at about a 30 degree angle to the surface of the loaf. This will give you a bit of a flap, and the grigne might open even better for you. Nice looking loaf of bread. Well done.

Jim

[Dutchoven]

Re: Nice bread slash

Looks great! How did it taste? Did you notice anything different with the slow rise in the fridge? That method tends to leave some sugars present the next day that usually aren't present in other methods. You might try to shape baguettes without pressing out the gas. After the overnight retarded rise in the fridge let the dough warm to room temp, turn it out onto floured board trying not to de-gas it and cut it into a few strips(I use a bench knife) and then stretch them into baguette shapes, slash em and bake em. Should only take about 15 to 20 min to bake in the 500 to 600 range. Should get a great caramel color and have fantastic flavors too. I hope you try this!
Best
Dutch

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Afters years of baking, this is starting to make a little sense. The slash does two different things. The cut in the skin of the loaf gives the upward pressure of the seam and the oven spring a good place to go. Also, the little "lip" that you cut with the more steep angle (30&#186 give you the flap that stands out and becomes well defined.

Is that right?

I'm trying again today -- though I started the loaf this morning. I am using the last of the French flour with the additives, so it isn't a perfectly "controlled" experiment (changing too many variable).

Dutchoven,
I make the ice-water baguette recipe from the Bread Maker's Apprentice occasionally -- and you are right. It gives a remarkable caramel color and flavor. I took a few photos one time.

Are you a pro baker? The advice is excellent.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f11/...ienne-469.html

James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,

Yes, at 30 degrees you'll get better definition. I suggest you try bulk fermentation, then driectly into you banneton, floured, after forming. Wait 20 minutes after dividing and before shaping. Seconday rise, your choice. Then cover the banneton completely with plasitic wrap; then straight into the fridge. Next day, no pre-rise at all but straight into the oven from the fridge. Baking time will be a bit longer, but you might like the results. This method works best with about 65-70 Per cent hyration, because the cold dough will not stick to the baskets.

Give it a shot.

Jim

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Jim,
Let me make sure I have this right.
1. Bulk fermentation.
2. Form boule and into banneton (seam side up)
3. Into the refrigerator overnight (no final proofing)
4. Next day, straight into the oven.

Is that right? I am baking today, so the timing is perfect for overnight proofing.

James

[Dutchoven]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,
I am no pro baker...but I am a pro golfer...so I like your golf reference in the other post... I just do an awful lot of research and work at it. Being a former New Yorkers living in rural Mississippi my wife and I have had to learn to make a lot of things for ourselves. I might be turning into a pro-baker/pizzaiolo/chef etc etc...as my wife wants us to open a cafe here where we live. I am definitely going to have wood fired pizza from an oven I will build. May also build a second barrel vault for baking and roasting...not totally sure yet. Your baguettes were really nice! I have made ciabatta with that same method. Cut off the sides and shape baguettes and then cut the middle into a couple of slippers. Not the same texture as ciabatta but a nice loaf never the less.

Jim
I am definitely going to try your bulk fermentation schedule. I often thought of that as a possibility but was never quite sure enough to try. I will be sure to post results when I have them.

All the best!
Dutch

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Dutch,
Here I am slaving away at tennis lessons, and we have a pro golfer among us. Can you tell us more? I'm having real trouble with my backhand. Wait, wrong sport.

Keep us up to date on the bakery - sounds fun. NY to MS, now that's a trip.

I am following Jim's instructions, and as of 10:20PM, I have a chilled boule in the refrigerator since 4PM -- and it has risen to fill the banneton, despite the cool temperature. Tommorow AM it's into the dutch oven. More to come on that.

Jamess

[Dutchoven]

Re: Nice bread slash

I look fore-ward to the results. I think it is great also that you are baking in a "Dutch oven." I don't play the tour, I am a club professional well, really a golf instructor is the probably the best definition. Should open a section for golf tips on the site ;-)
Best
Dutch

[CanuckJim]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,

Just busy, hence the delay. You have the order correct. The boule will rise fully, as you've already seen. It's one of the key methods to manipulating time with wood-fired bread. When the oven's ready, the bread is ready. Let me know how you make out. One side benefit is that it's much easier to slash cold dough than warm. Don't be afraid to cut fairly deeply.

Jim

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Thanks Jim and Dutch,
This worked out pretty well, and I learned a couple of new things. The loaf was baked straight from the refrigerator this morning. I followed Jim's directions, and baked the loaf this morning. First, you can see that there is a nice carmel color to the crust, which is deeper than the loaf where I left the dough out all day. That's nice. Also, it was easier to slash, and I think I got better definition with the grigne. Still not what I want -- but progress.

One thing I did not understand was that the loaf sagged a little on the counter, when I was doing the slash and before I set it in the dutch oven. That was surprising -- and it was wider than the oven by the time I set it in.

Any ideas on why that could happen. I was expecting a more firm loaf.

Jim and Dutch, thanks again for all the time you put into helping out. Here are a few photos.
James

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Wait a minute. I think I get it.

Too much yeast. Even in the refrigerator the boule had over-expanded and was just waiting to fall back in?

Could that be it?

I just had some for lunch. The crust was crunchy, but still a little elastic. Not crackly -- very nice. The flavor and the crumb were pretty good. Not bad.
James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,

Definitely too much yeast. The loaf was over-risen by the time you turned it out. Are you using commercial yeast or wild? The method I described works best with wild yeast, although you can use it with commercial yeast, but you must cut back the amount specified. Without seeing the formula, I can't say how much, but I'd start with about half the amount and work from there. Don't forget, the loaf will have lots of time to rise. Your fridge should be about 40 F.

Jim

[james]

Re: Nice bread slash

Off to work I go to try, try again.
Thanks Jim. I am using fresh bakers yeast. I halved it once, and will halve it again. They come in a 25g cube -- so I will use a quarter, or about 6g. Is that still too much?

That is for a 500g flour/325g water batch (one loaf) of dough. 10g salt.
James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Nice bread slash

James,

I'd say 6 gr is a good place to start. After the bulk rise and division, let the dough pieces rest on the bench for 20 minutes. Before forming into boule, slap each piece on the counter a few times to degas a bit, then form, then cover the banneton completely with plastic wrap, then right into the fridge. Looks like you're lining the banneton with floured cloth, which is fine. However, if you've got traditional coiled baskets, you can just flour the baskets using a fine seive. Don't make it too thick, but don't miss any spots either. That way you get the spiral design on the finished loaves. Turning them out cold from the fridge prevents (mostly) sticking problems.

Jim