Pain a l'ancienne

[CanuckJim]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

James,

I think you'll find that retardation helps break out grain sugars, and that's what caramelizes on the crust for those shiny bits. If you flour is not quite fresh, or the gluten percentage is low, you'll probably get dusty brown rather than shiny golden. Lots of variables here, though, including baking at too high a heat or too little steam.

Jim

[james]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Way to go Dave,

The ultra high hydration dough is a goopy mess, but it sure tastes great. I really like the way the crust develops.

Jim, how does crust carmelization work? Sometimes I get that golden crust that shines, and other times it's an ordinary dull brown. How do you control that?

James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Dave,

You did just fine. The dough is so wet that only minimal shaping is possible, but, hey, it's suppose to make rustic loaves, and that's what you got. Good crumb there. It does take practice, and you have to be quick, but the results are well worth the effort. I use a long, narrow, flexible, floured spatula, sometimes called an icing spatula, to slide under the loaves and then lift them onto a well floured peel. To flour the peel evenly, I used a very fine meshed stainless steel seive. That way, the layer is of even thickness, with no gaps.

Jim

[asudavew]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

I tried this recipe over the weekend.

I must say, it is very wet!

A bit scary, but lots of flour and I managed to pull it off.

The loaves weren't perfect, but they sure were tasty.

Here's some pics.

Dave

[MoonshineBaker]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Has anyone tried a pain a l'ancienne a la Reinhart in the Bread Baker's Apprentice using 20-30% fresh ground whole wheat flour in combination with 70-80% Caputo at 80+% hydration? I would guess that a higher hydration would be needed to fully hydrate the whole wheat. (I'll give it a try and see.)

I personally like to make pain a l'ancienne using a 50/50 mix of giusto's baker's choice and caputo. It appeals to me because it comes out with a more puffy, shinier open crumb than just 100% giusto's.

[fredjana]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

I can't wait to try pain a l'ancienne. After pulling it from the refrigerator on day 2, how long does it take to proof and be ready? My house is 65ish at this time of year. Thanks again.

Fred

[vitoduke]

James---Fran and I started building an ark. I guess it's better to get rain now and have a dry August and September for the grapes to ripen and not mildew. We're trying to pour an additional pad onto our patio to accomodate our crush party, maybe next week? We will be meeting with some friends this week-end and I will figure out how many people we will have for the cooking demo. We're looking forward to seeing you again and learning more about the oven.---Mel

[Robert Musa]

the only thing which will make it stop raining is if i build a better cover over my oven's landing. after i do that it will never EVER rain again.

[james]

Mel,

Is your bread better than anything you can buy in the store? Once you get started with good bread there is no turning back.

James

btw -- do you think it is ever going to stop raining?

[vitoduke]

First bread

Hi James---After we made the pizza we used your recipe for bread with 80% hydration. The bread turned out very good and it was a simple recipe. The oven was about 525 degrees. The bread had a really nice crispy crust.---Mel

[james]

photos

Well shoot. I burned the bottom of the loaves. I fired the oven longer in order to bake multiple things, and the deck was out of sync with the dome. Have to work on that.

So we too scraped off the carbonized bottom, and it was still good.

Marcel, I am using good quality bread flour (Giustos in this case), not the Tipo 00 which I think it too soft and a little light for hearth bread. I'm still using it for Focaccia though.

Here are the photos.
James

[Robert Musa]

wow !!! we made bread this weekend following your recipe and it was incredibly good. the flavor was just awesome. its no more work than ciabatta because even with ciabatta you have to make the biga the night before. problem is i now want to bake several loaves each and every night.

we made three loaves. one got pushed too far back into the oven and the bottom burnt (see picture below). we cut off the "carbonized" bottom and ate the whole loaf before dinner. i gave one loaf to our next door neighbor. we ate the remaining loaf during dinner. i would have gone next door at that point to reclaim the third loaf but that would have been bad form. lesson learned: double batches from now on.

technical details: used king arthur a.p. flour and added 3 tablespoons of gluten additive. oven floor was about 550 near the front and 700 at the back.

[Marcel]

Hydration, 40% or 80% ??

We made pain a l'ancienne baguettes for dinner guests last night in the brick oven.<snip>

<snip>What I am finding is that with 40% hydration, and good bread flour, <snip> I have not folded the dough, and cut four baguettes from a 500g (roughly 4 cup) recipe. <snip>
James

(M) Hi, James,

If this is the same dough that you previously made, then is that a Typo of one of the %? Here follows your other quote:

(J) " Here is the basic recipe:

500 gram flour
400 grams ice water
2 tsp salt
2 tsp yeast

That's right. 80% hydrated."

============
Thanks for the calrification.

Marcel

[james]

It worked again

We made pain a l'ancienne baguettes for dinner guests last night in the brick oven. Wow. Everyone was talking about the bread. After years of trying, this is the best I have ever done. The crust gets to a dark rich brown, without a hint of burning. Much darker than I've made.

I'm not sure what is better. The bread, or how easy it is to do once you get it right. What I am finding is that with 40% hydration, and good bread flour, the dough ball forms in the top of the mixer, and still sticks to the bottom. That seems to consistently work. I have not folded the dough, and cut four baguettes from a 500g (roughly 4 cup) recipe. You just mix the dough with ice water for 5-7 mintues and stick the mixing bowl in the refrigerator, then off to bed.

Other than forgetting to slash the dough, it looked good.

I'm doing it again tonight -- the fire is going right now, and I will take pictures.
James

[james]

Mel,

I think bread will work well with your King Arthur bread flour. Maybe you could make some ciabattas -- alla what Robert made. They made a great hearth bread the first time, and good photos. I am always struck by how much nicer bread comes out of a brick oven, compared with a pizza stone -- no matter how much you try.

A nice soft dough, well hydrated, and do the three-fold technique before baking. You don't slash the loaf. If you can get the Giustos delivered in time, I think you'll be really happy with it. They ship from NorCal, so you might make it.

After you have cooked your pizzas at 750F, let the oven fall to about 500-550F. Let us know how long that takes in your oven. The oven should be at about 4+ mississippis.

Your bread will bake a little faster than it would in a conventional oven at the higher temperature. If you have a lot of dough, try two batches -- one hotter, the next cooler, to see how they are different.

Have fun.
James