spent grain bread

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Jay, I like mine darker as well. With the Pain Ancient, the color is just part of the higher heat baking, IMO. That the SG loafs enter a 425F oven and are baked at 350F, is making getting color more of a problem. I wonder if keeping the 425 for 5 minutes would help. I need to get a handle using the banneton more effectively. I really beat up the loafs extracting them. Jay, How do you apply the flour to the banneton? I just floured the heck out of them, should I have misted spray oil and then dusted?

John, let me know how your brewing goes.

Chris

[texassourdough]

Re: spent grain bread

What bothers me about your loaves, Chris, more than the darkness is the color. It could be simply lighting or a lighter baking but it looks more like overproofed which gives a sort of blah color that I don't like. Reason is that overproofing exhausts the sugars so the loaf doesn't brown properly. Now, note: I am not saying they are overproofed, just that they look like it! You had multiple problems so we can't guarantee I am right! Yes, going a little longer at a higher temp can help push the loaf a bit darker.

NOTE: in my long discussion with Eric on his sourdough failure, the reason I want your base loaf to be 100% reliable is so that when you change the oven temp profile you knwo IT was the source of the change. By having your base bread reliable you can say, gee, I know I am a bit overproofed so when the color and loaf volume are a bit off you expected it. It reinforces your Understanding!

I haven't had any problems with bannetons with my spent grain. Unfortunately my sources promise spent grain and seldom come through so I don't have a lot of experience. In my experience the spent grain loaf is pretty well behaved so I would not flour the bannetons heavily. When I do have doughs that give me concern I try to make sure the gaps between the alder canes are full of flour. But that is all I do. It is usually enough but every once in a while it is not! And, to deal with that is interesting. Splat and I chat offline from time to time and we both tend to find that sticky doughs that don't release from the banneton usually still have good oven spring and loaf shape. (My most recent Tartine loaves did not!) So it is NOT mandatory that a sticky loaf equals a flawed loaf. If you have good dough development the seemingly rough treatment of being rudely pulled from the banneton does not equal disaster.

WRT how I apply flour, I simply do it by hand and then sort of swirl it around to try to get it in the cracks. When I use plastic bannetons I tend to spray it with Pam and then apply flour/rice flour. Rice flour is a magical releasing agent for dough (bread or pizza) and deserves some attention. I tend to hate the stuff for I think it gives ugly crusts but I need to put more effort into brushing it off!

Spent grain is one of my very favorite loaves so keep at it!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Jay, I think you’re spot on with the over proofing, especially on the loafs that were proofed in the baskets. I read your info last night before I went to bed, awoke and replayed the baking session. These later loafs went into the oven an hour after the first loafs and show it. The stickage makes sense because the amount of gas in the dough created a situation where any stickage had more potential to really rip up the dough. I’ll make a 2X batch next time around, my reasoning being that I can bake 2 1KG loafs at one time in my kitchen oven. I don’t want to make too much change and not be able to learn from the changes, but I think I’ll lose the vegetable oil. The addition of the oil really made the dough feel foreign when kneading.



Chris

PS I just went through EricU's sourdough thread and want to thank Jay Splat and Eric for the detailed info.

[texassourdough]

Re: spent grain bread

My spent grain loaves from PRs book on Whole Grain breads have come out much darker than yours, Chris. And really moist. Would be hard to overbake them severely I think. The lower baking temp is to accomodate the more delicate ingredients relative to straight dough boules. It is IMO generally preferable to bake a little early rather than a bit late. Note: a hard brick is too early! (not for you Chris but for those who go overboard!) The dough needs to have some soft airy quality if it is to be other than a brick!

Good Luck!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

I'll get it righter.. Perfect, maybe not, but much righter!! I think there are some areas in the process that I can get a better handle on. One of these areas is proofing, dough temps room temps and times. Maybe it's time for a bit of journaling.. If it gives me a point of reference and a crutch what the heck.. To quote a certain ex govenor "I'll be back!!"

:-)

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

I made a double batch, Soaker and Biga, with King Arthur White Whole Wheat flour and let them sit 24 hours. The temp of the Biga and Spent Grain out of the fridge were 40F, the room temp was 70F and the Soaker and Agave syrup are 70F as well. I gave the cold ingredients 1.5 hours to come up closer to room temps before kneading together all of the ingredients. After combining and kneading, the mass was divided in two 954G loafs. These were placed in bowls and given 45 minutes before final shaping and dropping these into parchment lined loaf pans. These were covered with plastic and given an hour to rise and then these pans were placed into a 425F oven 1 cup of boiling water was placed into a cast iron fry pan for steam and the oven temp was reduced to 350F. The pans were turned at 20 minutes. One loaf was checked at 40 minutes, 50 min and both loafs were pulled at 55 minutes at 203F. I'll post a crumb shot and taste critique tomorrow..

Chris

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

The crumb compares most closely to a quick banana bread recipe. In the photo you can also see side of the bread knife and the dough along the edge.

The flavor is good and with toasting and a bit of jam and butter, tasty. I think orange marmalade with a bit of bitter and acid will complement this loaf. I wonder if honey or molasses would work as a sweetener?

Chris

[dwightr8]

Re: spent grain bread

......I wonder if honey or molasses would work as a sweetener?

Chris

Chris,

You might want to try some of the sweet wort (the wort as it is drained off the mash before the addition of hops) if you can get some. It is very sweet and would probably add some interesting flavors.

Cheers,

Dwight

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

FWIW, there is a huge malting company in Los Angeles (Great Western?) who sells, I would guess, to Anheuser Busch in the valley and other local breweries. I have talked to them in the past and they are willing to sell to the casual homebrewer as long as he buys a couple of trash can-sized loads. That would be me. Once the outdoor kitchen is completed and I can resume my brewing endeavors it would be easy to share some of this with you for your SG bread.

John

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Thanks John, for the offer of SG when you're brewing again. Dwight, I wonder about adding wort rather than water as well. I also wonder about adding malt to the whole mix but I'd have to think about how much malt equals how much Honey or Agave syrup.

Chris

[dwightr8]

Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

I have used DME(dry malt extract) in some of my breads in place of sugar or honey. I usually just add a tablespoon or 2 or close to the same as the sweetener I'm replacing. I like the results. It adds a bit more complex flavor. Give it a try! It's certainly not going to make it inedible and I think you'll like it.

Cheers,

Dwight

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

I made another double batch of SG using honey this time and the result was better, although I'm still looking for more flavor complexity. I?ll try to locate dry malt extract and see where this takes things. I added a few shelled raw sunflower seeds to the top, a last moment addition and enjoyed the result. I?ll add some to the dough and see where it goes as well. I also wonder about adding tahini into the dough, similar to a vegetable oil addition, and then cover the top with sesame seeds before the bake. Anyway I?m looking for a bit different flavor profile with this bread.

Chris

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

These guys are selling 1lb bags of British DME for $3.99:

Dry Malt Extract- Wheat 1 LB | Home Brewing Supplies from Monster Brew

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Thanks Dwight and John. John I found that OShea's has DME and they're on my way home. John, have you ever dropped into BrewBakers in Huntington Beach? I understand that the cater to the brewer/baker group.


C

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

No, I haven't. It's been a few years since I last brewed and at that time I bought all my supplies from an outfit called Brewers Resource. They had everything imaginable in huge quantities and really good prices, but alas, they disappeared. Thanks for the lead though. I will have to pay them a visit just because.

John