Sourdough in Dinos WFO

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Hey Dino, great looking crust. I bake my sourdough straight out of the fridge. I never get the same oven spring in a conventional oven...much better in the WFO. I think the regular ovens just loose too much heat when you open the door. Are you spraying water in there? That is also key to oven spring.

Drake

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

yes it is fun trying. And not-as-good bread makes very good croutons or breadcrumbs!

I seem to remember that someone suggested baking retarded sourdough straight out of the fridge- no waiting for it to warm up. Why don't you give that a try next? I'd try it myself but I just don't have much time these days- I like my new job but geez, it seems to take all my time!

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I think Jay texassourdough is testing us to see if we can bake bread without him .

Rossco, I did use Reinharts BBA. I may try it again this weekend in the WFO this time since I'm firing it up pizza. I've got end of season tomatoes and pretty good basil plants to use. Yahoooo.

Man, I wish I knew Elizabeth. The crumb was a little dense and parts seemed like they wanted more bake time though the crust and bread tasted great. I think you're right since natural sourdough levains should rise 2/3rds, not double. I'll get it right, it's awfully fun trying.

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

The crust does look great. I don't know about the oven spring, though. Was it good inside? It's hard to tell in the last picture. If the texture inside was ok, and you didn't get good spring, it might have been a little overproofed.

[heliman]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Dino - they look sensational!!!!

Did you use the BBA as a reference to make them?

This is definitely inspiration for others...

Rossco

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Here is my last attempt. It was in my kitchen oven. I retarded it overnight. It has 5-10% rye in it. It got this AMAZING caramelization on it. You can see the dark and bubbled sugars on the crust from the Mailard effect. And the taste was great. BUT, I think my oven was too hot and I got little to no oven spring. It was really disappointing and frustrating since it tasted so good. Perhaps I needed to re-fold it or rather re-shape since the dough did not look to come alive after 3-4 hour out of the fridge? The yeasts needed longer at room temps? I dunno. I may try the same recipe with a pinch of commercial yeast next time and not just my own starter.

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I think it was 4 c regular and 3c rye. I can only get one kind of rye flour here- Hodgson's Mill, and it's a fairly coarse flour, but not dark. I'd say it's medium.

Rye adds a flavor and a texture that are unique, IMHO. It changes the way the dough feels- it tends to be stickier. And I find that it bakes up better slightly underproofed- but only slightly. The one thing I really miss in this recipe is the sourdough flavor, so I'm going to tinker with adding a little to it. Jay, any ideas about how to go about putting sourdough into a dough you put into the fridge and leave for days?

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Elizabeth, how much rye was that bread vs regular flour or starter? Just curious. Everyone seems to say rye adds a nice and unique flavor to breads. Also, did you use rye flour or a coarse grind (as in pumpernickle grind rye)? I've found so many interesting recipes with rye, I'll try it soon.

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Actually, they were pretty good. The white dough rose well and had a really nice open crumb, and good flavor. The rye didn't rise as well (but it doesn't always anyway) but the flavor was quite good, even though it didn't have that sourdough tang I like. The crumb was good too. The recommended 1 pound size loaf was a little small, though, so I think I may double the amount of dough I make up and use 1 1/2 pounds at a time.

Since I've done it the way it says once now, I'm going to go ahead and tinker with them. I think the next rye will get a little sourdough in it and the white will get some whole wheat flour or maybe some seeds or something. And they'll both get more water than they have. I haven't figured up the BP, but they both could do with more hydration and still be good.

I also put another pan in the bottom of the oven and then added the second water to it- worked even better than just putting more water in the same pan.

It's always easier to control the home oven, but the wfo gives better crust for me even so... but my oven is crappy. Next house I get a different oven!

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Thanks Jamie, I checked out Sandors book and it looks really interesting. I'll pick up a copy soon. His website looks like fun too.

Elizabeth: I think I'll also add some water to the pan after a couple of minutes. It's so dry here in Southern California it couldn't hurt. I'm going to do Reinharts Basic Sour Dough again starting tomorrow (2 day process) using a firm starter. Saturday will be baking day and I'll do it in the kitchen oven, not the wfo so I should be able to control the temps and misting better. Let me know how your refridg-retard went. -Dino

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I use a heavy pan and boiling water for my steam. Sometimes I spray the oven walls, but usually what I do is put more water in the pan after about 1 1/2 minutes or so.

I use a stone on the top rack and one on the bottom- I think it gives me better top crust. Well, actually I use a stone on top and 1/2 inch quarry tiles cut to fit my oven rack on the bottom. Works the same and cost a lot less!

Tomorrow I'm going to try the bread I have in the fridge- we'll see how the long retard works out for flavor. I've never had much luck with them, but people swear this works.....

[cynon767]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

If you like the idea of "rotten food", you might be interested in this fun and informative book by Sandor Katz, who also runs the wild fermentation website (and who goes by the nickname SandorKraut, which tells you something about the tone of the book)

It's fun, well-written, informative, and easy to use. Definitely recommended for anyone interested in some home fermentation projects, that doesn't mind coloring outside the lines a bit. Kraut, pickles, kimchi, beer, sourdough, kombucha, you name it. Plus, a few good chapters on food history for perspective.

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

"Rotten Food" Jay? I kinda like the sound of that. I've been reading about all kinds of great things that happen nutritionally not only in pickled but fermented (rotting) foods like sourkraut and kimchi.

Also, I do feed my starter weekly but will try to bake weekly too.
I'll be baking bread this weekend but was wondering what you do for oven steam.

I always use a baking stone in my oven. I put an anodized, heavy 14" Calphalon pan on the bottom rack just under the stone. Then, after it's all heated to 500 deg, I throw in about 2 cups of boiling water on the hot Calphalon pan, slide my 2-3 loaves (that are each sitting on a rectangle of parchment paper so I can slide the whole thing onto the baking stone without deflating anything) then use a spray bottle and douse my steel oven walls and floor with a good spray before shutting the door. I repeat the spray 2-3 more times in 30 second intervals then drop my oven to 400 deg. This has made the biggest differences in my baking so far. What I don't get is what I've been reading about using ice cubes and cast iron pans. Do you use any of these methods?

Elizabeth: I've got a 3 year old KA baking book I've totally neglected but reading it last night, I found all kinds of great info and recipes. Thanks for mentioning your KA recipes.

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Hey Dino!

Once a month won't be often enough to keep your sourdough starter healthy. Needs to be fed or make bread once a week... At least.

I like your pickle comment. I have been working on more "rotten" food. I made sourkraut last year from scratch. Took about two/three weeks. My wife thought she was going to die. But then declared it he most wonderful sourkraut she had ever tasted!

Keep Cookin!
Jay

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I'm glad you like it. Read it carefully, then go with the recipe you think looks best! The recipes, once you are familiar with the way he puts them together, are all good. I really liked the fig/hazelnut/rosemary and the raisin/pecan (although it may be raisin walnut, but I have a superfluity of pecans, so I use them instead a lot). The semolina bread was good too. I find that it's good when I make a new recipe the first time, but even better the second and third times through- when you know what to expect you just have better results, even with the same ingredients.

Right now I have in my fridge the two recipes that came in a KA catalog earlier- baguette and rye from that bread in 5 minutes a day book. We'll see how good it is- I did have to fight myself from changing the recipe right away! I think you should always try it their way at least once.

I'll let you all know how they turn out in a few days. Have fun, Dino!