Sour Dough Starter...

[texassourdough]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

But note, Rossco, you underfed it significantly - so it probably peaked in only four or five hours. It will need to be fed sooner now or it will begin to decline.

Hang in there.
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Ok thanks Jay - will attend to it as soon as I get home and get it happy again!!!

Rossco

[texassourdough]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Part of why I am pounding on this is that it seems to be important to get the starter really healthy at some point so it can truly take over and push out all the bad stuff. So feeding reliabliy and consistently until it is robust is important. Once that is accomplished the bad stuff has a hard time getting back in and you don't have to be so careful. As I indicated mine gets tired - no problem. Just give it an extra feeding to perk it back up.
Jay

[Frances]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

I don't know about you guys, but I find wittnessing the birth of a new sourdough starter really cool. Kind of like seeing a dome close in, its one of those special moments....

Good luck Rossco, may your starter live long and prosper!

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Thanks for the positive words Frances..

Jay - have scaled the starter down to 100 grams and added 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water and all looks good.

Will feed again tomorrow morning.

Will that have to be 100 grams water and 100 grams flour to match the 200 grams that the starter currently is?

Rossco

[texassourdough]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Right, Rossco. If you don't scale it back by removing 100 grams of starter, you should add 100 grams flour and 100 grams water. (Since you have 200, if you toss 100 of starter you can use 50 and 50.)

You gain nothing by not tossing unless you like using sourdough starter in pancakes and stuff like that for you can grow it back up in a couple of feedings. Like I said earlier, there are people who only keep 10 grams or so of starter and feed that. (That's too laboratory like in size for me! I want something I can see!)
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Excellent Jay - much appreciated. I will cut it back in the morning then and will continue to keep it at 100 grams in future. It definitely seems a manageable amount.

I will check back for your recipe but what is the general amount that is needed when baking a couple of sourdough loaves??

Rossco

[texassourdough]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Part of why I keep 200 grams is I start my bread batches with 100 grams. When the house is in the mid 70s I do a 4X expansion (100 grams plus 400 grams (200 flour and 200 water) so I then have 500 grams) around dinner time and leave it out all night. It will take about 12 to 13 hours to have peak activity. Then I do another 4X expansion (about 1250 flour and 750 water, i.e. add 2000 grams to 500 = 4X). And 45 grams of salt (some would say 30 is right but I like a little extra). I do all the mixing by hand. I sent pretty complete details a page or so back.

The recipe above makes 2.5 kilos or about 5 pounds of bread. A simple way to reduce the final amount is to reduce the final expansion to 3X and add 1000 grams flour and 500 water which will give you about 4 pounds. If you want less, I would drop the beginning starter amount to 50 to 80 grams and simply ratio down the additions. I would NOT reduce the first expansion ratio of 4 because the yeast activity will peak too soon and the preferment will be a bit lethargic the next morning. Going less than about a 3X final expansion doesn't give the yeast enough to do and is a bit weird.

And finally, if the kitchen temp is in the high 60s the first expansion can be 3X because at that temp it will just about peak in 12 to 13 hours and be ready to go the next morning.

Note: All the above is based on MY yeast and sourdough but most sourdoughs are pretty similar in activity level and temperature response so the guidelines should be about right. Also, the above is for OPTIMAL results. Until you have been doing this a while you probably won't notice much impact from having the first expansion peak a bit early or late. So I would say base the expansion ratios on your kitchen temp (more or less), adjust the starter amount to how much bread you want (25 grams or so for one 1 1/4 lb. loaf, 50 for two, 100 for 4) and go for it!

Good Luck!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

OK sounds good ... will feed again shortly and then get things ready for a bake tomorrow...

This process is certainly a science, making the results that much more rewarding as Frances suggests!

Rossco

[texassourdough]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Think of your starter as a pet that will return your love and attention with great bread!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Right then it will have to get in the breakfast queue with 2 Australian King parots, 22 canaries, 15 finches, 16 goldfish and 3 cats!!!!

Rossco

[Frances]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Mine's called Yorrick.

[acbova]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

I've been tending my starter for a few months. I've tried feeding it twice per day and many other things. As I feed it it seems to be turning eating up the flour pretty quickly and turning it very loose withing a 1/2 day.

But when I try to make a the first dough ball it takes 1 day to double. Can I make the next dough with this? It's really sticky, is it worth trying to make bread?

Should I give up on the starter and start a new starter? Or should I take the next week to keep feeding it?

Sourdough is the first bread I've had anywere this much trouble with.

[heliman]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Good luck with the starter. It seems to be quite a big job to keep it going.

I got distracted and mine died some weeks ago (RIP) without me even making a single loaf. I do plan to making another starter sometime in the future, but for now my focus is on making pizzas in my new industrial mixer.

Good luck with your activities...

Rossco

[Frances]

Re: Sour Dough Starter...

Oh hey guys! What sad news to spring on a cold Monday morning!

...How do you kill a starter anyway?? I leave mine in the fridge for weeks on end, and it comes back again.

acbova, it sounds to me as if you may not be putting enough starter in the dough. You need to feed it up a bit (i.e. increase it) before baking. But its really not complicated once you get the hang of it.

I keep 300g of starter in a small covered bowl in the fridge (as I said, for weeks on end without so much as looking at it). The day before baking, in the morning, I stir in 300g of flour and 300g of water and leave it in a large covered bowl on the counter. Before going to bed I add another 900g of flour and 900g of water (this could also be less, depending on how much bread you want to make). By the next morning I have a bowl full of 2.7 kg of very active starter. Before baking I remove 100g, add another 100g of flour and 100g of water to this and put it back in the fridge for next time. And the rest goes into the bread dough.

In Winter I use 40% starter in the bread (so I'll bake 6.5 kg of bread with 2.6 kg of starter) in Summer it'll be as little as 20%. And yes, it takes a while to proof... hang on I baked only yesterday so lets see... the dough was made by 12, I folded it once at 1 o'clock, once at 2 (when I fired up the oven) , once at 3, we had pizzas at 4 and I shaped the bread right afterwards, left it for another two hours or so and put the first load of bread in around 6 in the evening. Although because it rises slowly this timetable is quite flexible.

You can of course feed your starter more regularly, take better care of it and whatever, but I find this method works for me and means I don't have to bother remembering to do anything with the starter when I'm not baking. Ha, And I don't throw any starter away either.


Um, this is the thread that got me started on sourdough (from page 4). Now I'm not saying that this is the best way or even the right way to do it, but I found sourdough very confusing until I tried this approach... so maybe it'll be helpful to you, too. And you can always get more sophisticated later on.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/11/p...ns-2334-4.html