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Carl and I had a brief discussion about pavers vs concrete slabs for patios and I'd like to continue the dialog here. Anyone is welcome to jump in.
Specifically, I was talking about patios that are located in freeze thaw zones. I maintain that dry set pavers,stone,clay or concrete units bedded in crushed, washed stone... are a much better choice than a concrete slab in these areas. Carl, I seriously would like to know what makes you feel like a concrete slab better than pavers in freeze thaw zones.
I maintain that if all things are equal...base material, subsoil conditions, climate... pavers are the better choice in every way except initial cost...but not long term cost. Because if the paver patios you saw that were heaved, I guarantee that a concrete patio would have heaved too.
I've seen a few good slabs up here...minimal cracking and settling. But even the best of them will not hold their beauty. And every single concrete patio will crack somewhere other than the control joint eventually. Once you have one crack, it's never going away. I don't know how much time you've spent in freeze thaw zones, and I'm not doubting your experience. What I'm doubting the quality of the paver installs you saw. The same could be said of the bad slabs I've seen right? However....
Unit patios are a flexible system. A dry set paver patio is flexible....Concrete slabs are not. As you know, earth in a freeze thaw zone is dynamic...it demands a flexible system if you are looking at overall quality and longevity of a patio. Both kinds of patios demand good subsoil prep, drainage and good base material.
But those facts cancel each other out and provide no advantage to either system. Because if either system isn't preped correctly, it will fail. Which brings me back to the main point...the material itself. Once a (dry set) paver patio is classed as 'failed' what do you have? All the material. What do you have with a heaved or cracked up concrete patio? A dumpster full of busted up concrete. I have seen paver patios that were a total loss....when they were installed over a concrete slab in a mortar bed. To me, that type of installation is an even bigger maintenance headache than a plain concrete patio...not to mention more expensive than a dry patio or concrete slab.
So, I'm curious as to what reasoning can you provide that supports your opinion that a concrete patio is better than pavers in a freeze thaw zone? Remember, I'm talking about a dry set paver patio, not one bedded in mortar over a concrete slab.
Specifically, I was talking about patios that are located in freeze thaw zones. I maintain that dry set pavers,stone,clay or concrete units bedded in crushed, washed stone... are a much better choice than a concrete slab in these areas. Carl, I seriously would like to know what makes you feel like a concrete slab better than pavers in freeze thaw zones.
I maintain that if all things are equal...base material, subsoil conditions, climate... pavers are the better choice in every way except initial cost...but not long term cost. Because if the paver patios you saw that were heaved, I guarantee that a concrete patio would have heaved too.
I've seen a few good slabs up here...minimal cracking and settling. But even the best of them will not hold their beauty. And every single concrete patio will crack somewhere other than the control joint eventually. Once you have one crack, it's never going away. I don't know how much time you've spent in freeze thaw zones, and I'm not doubting your experience. What I'm doubting the quality of the paver installs you saw. The same could be said of the bad slabs I've seen right? However....
Unit patios are a flexible system. A dry set paver patio is flexible....Concrete slabs are not. As you know, earth in a freeze thaw zone is dynamic...it demands a flexible system if you are looking at overall quality and longevity of a patio. Both kinds of patios demand good subsoil prep, drainage and good base material.
But those facts cancel each other out and provide no advantage to either system. Because if either system isn't preped correctly, it will fail. Which brings me back to the main point...the material itself. Once a (dry set) paver patio is classed as 'failed' what do you have? All the material. What do you have with a heaved or cracked up concrete patio? A dumpster full of busted up concrete. I have seen paver patios that were a total loss....when they were installed over a concrete slab in a mortar bed. To me, that type of installation is an even bigger maintenance headache than a plain concrete patio...not to mention more expensive than a dry patio or concrete slab.
So, I'm curious as to what reasoning can you provide that supports your opinion that a concrete patio is better than pavers in a freeze thaw zone? Remember, I'm talking about a dry set paver patio, not one bedded in mortar over a concrete slab.
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