Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Jeff, understood on the engineering brain-se. I am looking for cooking much more than just pizza, so to me the best "general purpose" shape is the hemisphere with at least a 1/2 brick soldier row to give some hight to work with in the oven. I think you are right that the heat saturation and fire burning will produce pretty decent temperatures no matter what the actual shape. Not too sure if any of those would effect airflow and hot/cold spots, probably not.

As I start building I'll adjust, I completely modeled the oven in SketchUp first and worked on it over and over tweaking, especial the entry way into the oven. I'm still on the fence as to an arch or a straight top using angle iron. I actually like the look of a rectangular entry better and think it would be more utilitarian.

I'm gearing up to start putting down my floor this weekend, I'm going to build the dome on top of the floor and not run the floor to the dome, way too much skill and cutting involved in that.

I'm trying to minimize cuts as much as possible, I grabbed a 14" cutoff from Harbor Freight and put a "decent" blade on it. Hopefully it will work out, I am well within my 30 day return policy :-)

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Separate reply to talk about the start of the oven.

I've attached sample photos from the bricks that I can supply locally. About $1.60 a brick. I have two suppliers, one sells just red, but has two sizes, the other sells red and yellow, but has only one size.

If you look at the pictures, there is a significant difference in quality between the two. All the sample yellow bricks I purchases had very clean edges and did not seem to chip very easily. All of the red bricks I purchased seemed to have rougher edges that have worn easily. Both weigh about the same.

I'm assuming there is really no chemical or structural difference between them and it is all just "coloring", but I feel safer with the yellow.

I think overall I like the yellow bricks better and will just go with those.

Also, I managed to source fireclay after a little hunting. I talked to the masonry suppliers and they could all get it as a special order and it was quite expensive. After some googling and calling around I managed to find a local pottery supply company selling 50# bags of Hawthorn 40 for $13 each. Sounded great to me. They had other fire clays too, actually quite a few, but it seems hawthorn is a good choice. If you are in the Boston, MA or Portland, ME area check them out. Portland Pottery

[Lburou]

If I could do it over.....

Jake

You sound like an analytical person. As you consider all the data, there IS one thing I would try to disuade you about.

Its about using sailor courses exclusively, NOT a soldier course. You can go up as far as you wish to provide the head space for bread -or any other food- using sailor courses.

By using a sailor course you will be leaving MORE overlap of the bricks opposing the courses above and below (the bond). That will mean fewer cracks as time goes by. Wish I had listened to dmun on this :wish I could do it over:

Regards

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Lee,
That does seem to make sense, much more uniform with straight sailors. The soldier course definitely introduces many seams in the first course. I think I'll cut enough brick for the first two courses, dry fit it and see how it feels when I get there. Though I am starting to be convinced :-).

Overall as long as it keeps the design simple, I am all for it. This would not add any extra complication.

Thanks

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Well Aunt Irene is coming to visit this weekend, so I don't think I'll be able to get anything done. I did, however, grab some bricks yesterday for a test fit. I just dry fit them together to see how it is going to go. My insulation layer is very even, so should just need to mix up the sand/clay I bought and tap them in. Going to wait for some dry weather though.

Oh, and in case you are wondering, I am going to remove the PVC pipe from the middle. That is where my kiln ceramic sheath will be coming from, with access to replace it and other thermocouples. They will be secured in, but removable, then packed with ceramic insulation. It is a 3/4" hole right though the hearth.

[JOSHUAFINANCIAL]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Jake - this is about the coolest thing, ever. It's not for me - although I love gadgets and Android - I'm looking forward to old-timey rustic cooking and just "getting the feel" of my oven. But I just had to tell ya' you're amazing.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/imag...tor/smilie.gif

So, here is a little something different. Looking at a lot of posts about Thermocouples. While I understand the "get to know" your oven mentality, I plan on using my over a lot for bread and longer roasts too, so more data on the temperature profile will be well worth it.

So, in true nerd fashion and not wanting to pay for a commercial unit. I came up with the attached schematic and board design capable of monitoring up to six thermocouples. Could easily be less by not populating the parts, or more by changing the schematic some.

There is no interface to this, it is powered with a rechargeable LiPo battery and has a bluetooth connection. I have written a simple Android application to communicate with it allowing me to calibrate and view temperatures, as well as log the temperature over time.

If anyone else is interested in the electronics part of this let me know and I can post more information.

[PizzaIdiot]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Jake,
Is there a reason you oriented your herringbone pattern the way you did?
From other posts (which I can't find quickly), I'm orienting my 90 degrees from the way you layed yours out. Sounds like it's less likely to catch the peel.

It probably doesn't matter, but I was curious.

Thanks,
-jeff

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

OK, some thoughts on tools.

I read a lot of posts about the tools people choose, from super expensive wet cutters, to super cheap and everything in between.

I decided I would try the lower cost options and see how it worked for me.

So what am I using:
1. Makita 4.5" Grinder - Not cheap, but borrowed from my stepfather so it was "free".
2. 14" Cut-Off Saw from Harbor Freight - Cheap, and good return policy if it doesn't work.
3. 14" Abrasive Masonry Wheel - $8 from Home Depot - Since abandoned for #4
4. 14" Diamond Masonry blade from Harbor Freight

So, what have I learned so far? Diamond blade, even a cheaper one makes a huge difference. Difference of a hot knife through leather and a hot knife through butter. The abrasive is just not a good option. The cut-off saw is doing the trick, but a little more HP would work better.

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Here are some pictures from this weekend's project. Some notes:

1. Fire clay and sand - Probably used about 20# or each or less. Bought 2 50# bags of each, oh well at least they were cheap.

2. I am not a perfectionist. My floor edges are not perfect, but I have a grinder if they end up being a problem.

3. Diamond Blade goes through the bricks 1000% easier than an abrasive blade

4. Having your brother help makes everything much faster

5. Center brick is removable and will be replaced later with a thermocouple "enabled" brick

6. I have no idea if I did the herring bone pattern right, but looks good to me, again planning on a grinder helping out if not.


The bricks in front are just for fit and I will be cleaning that up later.

Now I actually need some mortar to set these bad boys.

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Also, Jeff, no idea, just felt right, may not be though!

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

A litte more...

[PizzaIdiot]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Jake,
I'm jealous! You are making great progress. I did go dove hunting yesterday with my sons. Weathermen and weatherwomen promised several inches of rain, but guess what...we had the best weather overcast and cool (low 80s).
I really need to catch up to you! I want a pizza before the end of the month!
Jeff

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

Jeff,
Feels like it is going slow, but I am at least now into the oven part. When I was trying to use the abrasive disc to cut the bricks I thought "This is going to suck". Once I started cutting with the diamond blade, soooo much easier. I cut 20 bricks in less than 30 mins. I'm not too sure about pizza by the end of the month, i am aiming for Thanksgiving. I get, maybe, one day a week to work on the oven, so it's slow going.
Keep chugging along and thing about dove pizza?

[jatsrt]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

OK, quick one tonight. I threw together a simple < $10 indispensable tool. It's not adjustable, but it works.

I used a $2 hinge a $3 piece of maple(straight and sturdy). A $1.50 angle joint and some screws. Does not show the angle in the picture, but it works.

Thoughts/comments?

[Lburou]

Re: Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

I'd use that dome gage

Have you given thought to the transition from the dome to the entry?
One of the more challenging phases of the pompeii oven build is the transition from the oven dome to the arch opening for the oven landing.

GianniFocaccia, Karangi Dude & Sharkley, (and possibly others I haven't seen), have employed a simple and clean way to make the transition a lot easier. They have angled the cut on the dome side of their inner arch bricks. It makes the transition a LOT easier and probably more sound.

Karangi Dude's inner arch:

GianniFocaccia's inner arch:

Also in Sharkey's inner arch.