42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

No one has argued the cost factor of ceramic fiber boards as being cheaper, nor that perlite was not a good insulation. CFB, is reliable, stable and very efficient as an insulation. V/P-crete, reliable, stability, and efficiency can be effected by many factors, how it's mixed, how compacted it is, its ability to allow or not allow moisture to evaporate from the mix. Still, its a great option and many people use it in addition with CFB. Will it settle and compact, sure, that why there is a recommended minimum depth and many people go above that for added insurance. Yes there is a cost difference, and some are swayed by cost and others by science.

Very well said. that makes sense. decisions, decisions, i dont know which way to go. My options are buy 2 packs from McGills (6 boards). 2nd option, but one from Mcgills and one board from FB store. or use Pcrete.... is 6" of Pcrete enough? I guess im just asking too many questions.. grrr.

Just curious why is it necessary to have insulation at the entrance floor of the oven? underneath the chimney? its not like were cooking there.

[Laurentius]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

No one has argued the cost factor of ceramic fiber boards as being cheaper, nor that perlite was not a good insulation. CFB, is reliable, stable and very efficient as an insulation. V/P-crete, reliable, stability, and efficiency can be effected by many factors, how it's mixed, how compacted it is, its ability to allow or not allow moisture to evaporate from the mix. Still, its a great option and many people use it in addition with CFB. Will it settle and compact, sure, that why there is a recommended minimum depth and many people go above that for added insurance. Yes there is a cost difference, and some are swayed by cost and others by science.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Thanks Gulf, is my understanding correct that FB sells one 23x36x2 board for $70?. No matter how i calculate the perlite is alot cheaper. 4 bags of perlite will cost me $50, but if i were to get the boards it would cost well over $200. Am i missing something here? Is perlite not a good option?. Also will perlite settle and compact over time from the weight of the oven?

[Gulf]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

I think that Forno Bravo sells the boards individualy. The industrial CalSil that I used came 7 boards to the box. The 2 inch thick boards were 1 foot by 3 foot. That is enough for a 42". You may have to google and/or call around for comparison.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

I called McGill's warehouse to ask if they would sell 4 boards instead of 3 in a pack and he said NO, very rude and unhelpful. Since 3 boards wont fit a 42" oven ill have to use perlite/vermiculite. Im guessing 4 bags of 4CF perlite should be enough.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Ive already purchased it, ill have to built the block and bricks around that specific door, its basically for air flow, and for adding wood. Ill have to work on it some more then It will look like something.

[Laurentius]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Why don't you build the grill first? Its hard for me to visualize a grill with that type of door, the grills that I've used have tops and for air flow use vents.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

What would you guys recommend i use for air flow for the grill. I need a door to allow air flow. i was thinking about getting this.

http://www.amazon.com/Cast-Iron-Cleanout-Door-12/dp/B004T3COG2/

http://www.amazon.com/Woodeze-5VE-26-003-Cast-Iron-Clean-Out/dp/B0013JSZ3G/

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Update: We were able to get the walls up yesterday. I still have to make some changes and form the arches around the door ways then pour concrete during the concrete slab pour. All holes were filled with concrete. Note not to buy cinder blocks from Lowes, they were horrible, not straight at all.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Thanks for the feed back. I've got a theory too;

My support slab does have a joint that runs right though the center of my block base. The two halves of the slab are not completely flush with each other and I did not lay my block on a mortar bed (to distribute the load across the joint) - Doh! The crack propogates up through the block base very near this joint and on up through the hearth slab. Maybe my block base settled (cracked) because of this joint and cracked the hearth slab along with it?? I'm not too worried about it, the crack has not gotten any bigger. Just the same I might put another support wall perpendicular to my 4x16 column - I don't think it's an issue really....but I still haven't removed the 2x4 and plywood support under the hearth .

I have a similar corner design like yours. I will be interested to watch your build this winter...since I can't work on my own!

Thanks again,
Regards,
AT

thanks for the additional info, would love to see a actual picture of that darn crack.

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

V-Wiz
You are going to want your final decision on insulation under the floor soon as this will impact the height of your stand. More is insulation better - I am very satisfied with the performance of the FB ceramic board (no V-Crete). As I built my stand I ended up with the cooking floor 52 inches above my feet, which is taller than most. In my calculations I failed to account for the fact that my slab was above the level of the patio (4 inches) and I later wanted to add splits beneath my 2 inch FB floor tiles. I was panicked that I made have made a fatal flaw but forged ahead. I still have not completed my landing in front of the oven - But I can say that I am pleased with the working height (I am 6'2").

Thanks for the advice, you are right, i need to decide on the insulation however not because of height, i am only 5'9"-10" tall so 4 rows of cinder block plus all the other good stuff should be good for me.

[ATK406]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Wow that sucks, i dont think the crack was from lack of rebar, there are many concrete driveways that dont have rebar and dont crack(im in the construction industry) so there may have been other factors, i also see that the slab is nice and thick,

Thanks for the feed back. I've got a theory too;

My support slab does have a joint that runs right though the center of my block base. The two halves of the slab are not completely flush with each other and I did not lay my block on a mortar bed (to distribute the load across the joint) - Doh! The crack propogates up through the block base very near this joint and on up through the hearth slab. Maybe my block base settled (cracked) because of this joint and cracked the hearth slab along with it?? I'm not too worried about it, the crack has not gotten any bigger. Just the same I might put another support wall perpendicular to my 4x16 column - I don't think it's an issue really....but I still haven't removed the 2x4 and plywood support under the hearth .

I have a similar corner design like yours. I will be interested to watch your build this winter...since I can't work on my own!

Thanks again,
Regards,
AT

[dvm]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

V-Wiz
You are going to want your final decision on insulation under the floor soon as this will impact the height of your stand. More is insulation better - I am very satisfied with the performance of the FB ceramic board (no V-Crete). As I built my stand I ended up with the cooking floor 52 inches above my feet, which is taller than most. In my calculations I failed to account for the fact that my slab was above the level of the patio (4 inches) and I later wanted to add splits beneath my 2 inch FB floor tiles. I was panicked that I made have made a fatal flaw but forged ahead. I still have not completed my landing in front of the oven - But I can say that I am pleased with the working height (I am 6'2").

[V-wiz]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

Wow that sucks, i dont think the crack was from lack of rebar, there are many concrete driveways that dont have rebar and dont crack(im in the construction industry) so there may have been other factors, i also see that the slab is nice and thick,

[ATK406]

Re: 42" Brick Oven & Grill in Los Angeles.

I put a 4"x8"x16" cinder block column in the center of my hearth (for peace of mind). I understand (and agree with) Gulf RE the weight distribution of the oven but I wanted the extra security anyway. As it turns out, I should have used more rebar. I placed rebar approx 12" OC from side to side but only had 3 pcs spanning the width of the oven (I simply ran out of rebar - I should have gone out for more but I thought - "Hey I've got a pillar in the middle anyway".

Ironically (unfortunately) I still ended up with a crack in my hearth slab I'm pretty sure it runs right through the slab from front to back (I haven't removed my plywood form yet). I've been wondering if my column acted as a stress riser in the center of my slab during my final day of curing (my wife went gonzo with the fire on the last day and cleared the dome while I was at work - I was only planning to hit 600 -

I may install another support wall underneath the slab in the spring since it is hard to take advantage of all that space in the back anyway (unless you build a giant drawer). In hind sight I would have created an opening at the back of the base for additional storage in the rear (“I” shaped base instead of a box). C'est la vie.

Incidentally, I have found one advantage to having the pillar in the middle; It helps to stack and organize my wood and keeps my apple from tumbling into my cherry and ash (I use red oak stored in a separate woodshed for the bulk of my cooking).
RE: Insulation under the cooking floor, I wish I had used some V-crete in addition to my insulating firebrick. I have 1 layer of 2.5” thick insulating brick which were great for creating a level surface for my hearth bricks but I should have used another 2”-3” of v-crete underneath that.

Good Luck with the rest of your build.
Regards
AT