1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

[V-wiz]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Very nice, is that the base to the oven? If so where is the foundation?

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Very nice, is that the base to the oven? If so where is the foundation?

The area measuring approximately 6' x 7' underneath the outline of the bottom course of stone was dug to a depth of 18" and packed tightly with limestone screenings. The first layer of stone was just set on/in a few inches of mortar mix directly on top of the screenings that were tamped in with water spray and a gas powered tamper.

We are hoping that will be adequate as a foundation for the oven.

Thanks Stonecutter, for the tips on the characteristics of limestone. The more we find out...the more we realize we just don't know. I can understand exactly what you mean about it de-laminating when installed differently than it had been sitting bearing load and heat for all those years.

[hodgey1]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Is four the maximum number of pictures per post ? I have plenty of pictures yet to put up, and if that is the case, this may stretch out for a while ....

Love to see your progress Tractorman. I think you can load up to 6 pictures at a time.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Thanks for the heads up hodgey 1. I'll give it a shot.



What you're seeing here is the East side of the base, the front being the right side of the picture.

Stonecutter, its not that your stonesetting advice is not being used...its that we had proceeded pretty far beyond setting the oven base courses before I was lucky enough to find the FB forum.

The top stone on the right is a full 60" in width...well 59 plus a little bit....and is going to serve as a hearth stone ???? Its intended to be a little ledge in front of the actual oven opening to rest the door upon while loading the oven.



This is a shot of the 60" stone from the front of the oven. It measured 59 1/2" x 9 1/2" x 12" (nominally). This particular stone was on a lower course of the original oven and fairly well covered by the changing grade of the gentle slope in the front yard of the old house.

Yeah, the mortar looks kinda funky, but we planned to take a wire wheel on an angle grinder to knock off the edges once cured. We've already pressure washed all the stone and chipped away any residual lime/sand based original mortar that may have survived the trip to their final resting place.



This is the remnant of the large stone referred to in the original post as the top of the existing oven.... Starting out more than 7" in thickness, 7' in length and near 4' in width there were two 1" layers that had released their grip. Taking two pry bars it was easy to separate those layers exposing the solid remnant you see here. Of course the two pieces became many small pieces during the slimming process....

We then cut it down to match the 60" width and to act as a top to a good percentage of the base on which the firebrick cooking surface will be set.

Originally it had a suggested weight of 2,300 to maybe 2,600 pounds....I don't know what it weighs now, but two fat old men still needed hydraulic assistance to move it around.

This being the top of the old oven we assume it was the baking surface and was covered by a bent bough and tin arched enclosure. If it was NOT the baking surface and just the top of the firebox...well...it was just the top of the firebox.

There are no family photos that show it nor anyone alive that experienced its firing. Our Great Grandfather died in 1933 and our Great Grandmother died in 1939, the year my brother was born.



It is destined to set at this spot, the back section of the now hollow base. It too will be supported by brick-bats and scraps of stone and mortar like the back side of the hearth stone shows.

We tried to set it to where it will support the firebrick cooking surface flush with the top of the hearth. Being too narrow to fill the total area, the "in between" opening will allow for filling with jetted sand....(Which we now know probably should have been rip-rap and other scrap material).

...and hodgey 1, I just tried 6 pics and got immediately notified that the offending two above the limit of 4 MUST be removed.... so I'm guessing 4 it is !!!!

Thank you all for your comments.

[stonecutter]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Tractorman, that's fine....I did see you mention that this project was already finished. That stuff was for your next bit if stonework. Covering your joints is the one of the most important parts of structural stonework.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



After setting it on the 4x6's with the loader, we flipped the old hoe around to utilize the flexibility of the backhoe for actually sitting it in place for a dry fit prior to placing mortar on the top course for it to rest on. Once set permanently, the nylon strap was slipped out and the fresh mortar replenished. It set quite nicely and levelled out easily.

Many times throughout the rebuild the topic of how these size stones could possibly have been set with nothing but a mule, hammer, prybar and a skid. We figured that the immigrants from the old country brought many a trick and tons of "know-how" along with them.



So here it sits, good or bad, right or wrong....its here. A little crooked, a little wanky, but its here. Its all good though, because we still have a lot to goof up on yet.



Time now to fill the cavity. We opted for meramec sand. First the center of the large stone was supported with a column of brick bats...



Back from the local quarry we fill the cavity and jet it in with water for compaction. Hopefully excess water will filter down and drip out the drain. We already at this point were figuring for an extended curing process and was hoping the slow drying out of the moist sand under the heat source wasn't going to create a major issue.

Well, I told my brother all along we'd build the first one at his place then correct all (some) of our mistakes while building the second one at MY place....

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



The green rods in the picture are supports made of 1 1/4" high grade re-bar. Shaped like an inverted "U" with 6" x 6" flanges welded on the bottom, they are to support the large firebrick if the sand was to settle a bit over the years.

We sliced a bit off the back of the hearth stone to match up to the firebrick a bit better. A hand held angle grinder with a 12" masonry wheel was used.



Dry fitting the 12"x 18" firebrick we noted the top of the limestone slab needed a bit of attention before covering with mortar to ensure its height was compatible.




A little mortar to hopefully level out and bond the firebrick to the stone base. Thankfully the top of the cook surface turned out remarkably close to the same height at the hearth stone.



Not too bad... Now though, its time to figure out what to do about building an arched enclosure..... Next up: our rookie solution.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



Our solution was to grab some scrap 2x4s and make some 2x2's. Attached to the plywood's perimeter we figured it'd support the weight of the firebrick until the refractory cement set up...

Someone suggested a slight difference in elevation from front to back for the inside of the oven. Supposed to allow the smoke to excape a bit better out the back during the firing.... ???? Dunno yet at this point, but we took the suggestion.



Grabbing a hand full of shims, we just stacked some firebrick up to see how close they'd fit up the sides and over the top.



So here it is, sitting in place on top of the 12" x 18" firebricks with a few courses of 2 1/2" x 4" x 9" firbrick going up the sides. At this point, its looking like it may work out.

I guess you can tell by the eclectic collection of what to the non-discerning eye looks to be junk in the background....that we live in the country. Well, there may be an item or two that DOES qualify as junk, but most of it is good stuff with lots of potential.... Our old machinery sitting around is just like a pile of limestone that looks like "fill" rock to some that don't see the immediate potential, except rusty.



Seems at this point the laying of the firebrick isn't too bad going up the sides and around the back. We were trying leave halfbricks hanging out the front so they could also be staggered while installing the door. We wanted to have the front open to more easily remove the wooden form.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri


Well, we managed to get all the way over the top of the arch without any major problems and also kept to our plan to leave the front open for laying brick along with the door install.

We used 2000 degree refractory cement that adhered to the firebrick quite nicely. The wedges protruding out are scrap pieces of firebrick sliced with the masonry chop saw. We left the protrusions to give the cement cap something to hold onto.



A little creative grinding was required to fit the top course in because of the differences in radius of the front and rear of the arched dome. Remember, we'd decided to elevate the rear slightly...about 3" actually.

This shot does not show the fully filled joints, but they are held in place with the cement and are still resting on top of the wooden arch.



Stepping up on a 6' ladder was required for this shot as the rear of the dome is right at 7' in height. Clearly marked is the single firebrick occupying the flue opening and not sealed in place. The course above it spans the opening by means of a 3/16" plate of steel.

We were figuring to remove the brick while firing, then slide it back in place after clearing the coals and ash. Or if the oven is to be used with coals still inside, obviously the brick would remain removed.



Now was the time to decide on finishing the front or starting the stones going up the sides....Well, we decided on the latter and set a few on one side to get a feel for what they were going to look like. So far, so good... no squashed fingers yet.

This is really some good exercize for a couple old guys. Easier than logging anyway !!!

Next up: either the door or completing the limestone cap.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

You are going to have to do some logging to fire that beast. Looking good!

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



Here's a portion of one of the wood piles patiently awaiting the mill or the splitter depending on the quality of the log....so even though the wood requirement is probably gonna be quite high, we're not too worried....yet, that is.



We built this splitter in '78 or so and using the 15" tires for a reference, a fellow can tell about what the diameter of the logs are. Currently the splitter is hooked to a 40 hp (give or take) Massey Harris tractor and operates off of the power take off of any tractor capable of turning the pump.

It ulilizes a single stage 44 gpm hydraulic pump powering a 4" ram with the relief on the auto detent control valve set to give us approximately 24 tons of force. Fabricated from discarded materials from construction sites and used hydraulics from a mechanic buddy, it sports a reservoir made from 12" schedule 40 steel pipe and an adjustable "A" frame axle fabbed from 3" schedule 80 pipe and front hubs from a 54 Ford pickup.

Sorry...but this thread is about the oven.....



....couldn't resist just one more.....This is my own woodshed right behind the workshop. Each of the three compartments measure 12' x 12' x 10 1/2' and when full hold approximately 12 cord in each section. We heat three houses and two workshops with wood and usually empty one section per season.

Now back to the oven....



No voids are being left between the outer limestone cap and the firebrick dome so hopefully there will be adequate heat transfer to heat the stone heat sink to allow us to bake for a reasonable period.

Tscarborough, thank you for the comment and remember we always have an extra pair of gloves for anyone stopping by and wanting to play in the woodpile......

[v12spirit]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Looks like there is no insulation between the firebricks and the limestone! Did you do that intentionally?

[cobblerdave]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

G'day V12
This is a high mass serious bread baker probably capable of baking bread for a small village. The side draft oven that was the local bakery in my youth remained hot for nearly 80 years.
It's not the forno type oven that is usually on the forum. The forno, a weekend pizza oven with a bit of baking thrown in over a small time.
Each has there place.
Regards dave

[Tscarborough]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Regardless of what it is used for efficient oven design dictates insulation as well as the appropriate mass for the expected use.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Looks like there is no insulation between the firebricks and the limestone! Did you do that intentionally?

Yes, it is done intentionally first and foremost because this is our first attempt at a project like this and don't know any better. When we build the second one, hopefully by then we will have received enough cirtique to know what mistakes we made and how to correct them.

We've already received a number of suggestions so far in this thread that are very beneficial.

We intended this to be a functioning oven built with the stone used by our Great Grandfather as a tribute to our farming heritage and to the pioneering spirit of a man we never met.

....and the intention was for it to be built on the order of an oven used back in that time period....1870 to 1880.

So yeah, there's a lot of rookie mistakes but we are still kinda proud of the project. Thanks for the interest and please feel free to make suggestions for the next one.