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36" in Seattle

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  • Re: 36" in Seattle

    Framed up the cage that will hold about three inches of loose InsWool HP over the dome. It's basically the same stuff as the blankets that most FBers use. The cage is ordinary aluminum screen door material. I opted against the fiberglass screen although I don't know, maybe it would work too. Obviously, plastic mesh would be a bad idea as it might melt.

    The cage is held down to the hearth with tapcons (second photo). I intend to fill the bottom three inches (next to the InsBlock 19 boards) with loose vermiculite, then go InsWool from there on up to the apex. Hopefully the vermiculite will hold the tabs (second photo) down and not work its way out through the bottom before I get a chance to build or otherwise enclose the next layer of construction (either vermicrete or an enclosure with vermiculite fill).

    I am a little unsure how I will keep the InsWool from slipping out the front edge of the cage. The front edge will be held down to some degree by a wire tieing the left and right sides together through the groove behind the vent, but it may not be tight enough to prevent the InsWool from slipping out. I would duct-tape it down, but then it'll melt later which might not be pleasant. Another idea is to mortar the edge of the screen to the outside of the vent. Whatever, I'll figure something out.

    The third and fourth photos show the chimney shoe. I'm using an 8" double-walled pipe (10" exterior). The basic premise is easy to visualize from the photos. The shoe will be three layers tall. The fourth photo shows that I beveled (chamfered) the front-lower edge of the two shoe bricks for the lowest shoe level that will extend slightly past the entry arch. It'll make sense in later posts.

    As a side-note, the shoe bricks are the first bricks of the entire project that I used an angle-grinder to complete. All prior bricks were formed entirely with the tile saw. For these bricks, I hollowed out the curve with the saw as best as possible, then took an angle grinder with a masonry blade and smoothed it out. Worked like a charm, although I'm unclear whether it is appropriate to use a grinder as a "sander" as opposed to edge on like I used it to cut rebar. Hopefully this was kosher...or at least safe. Sure as hell did a number on the masonry blade, that's for certain.

    Cheers!

    Website: http://keithwiley.com
    WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
    Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

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    • Re: 36" in Seattle

      Kebwi,

      If you've never done masonry work before, you have definitely picked-up some serious skills!

      Nice work!

      Ken

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      • Re: 36" in Seattle

        You haven't seen my foundation slab or my hearth then. They were abysmal...but I'm learning.

        Website: http://keithwiley.com
        WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
        Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

        Comment


        • Re: 36" in Seattle

          Built the chimney shoe.

          There are not one, but two problems with the vent. First, the upper surface is not level. Second the sides (the triangles) are not symmetrical. This is more readily apparent if you carefully study their positions relative to the individual arch wedges under them.

          The chimney shoe corrects the leveling problem by tilting slightly at each of the three brick layers such that the upper surface of the shoe is perfectly level. However, the pipe will obviously lean to the south when placed inside the shoe since it will rest on the vent. Therefore, I will probably put a thin layer of mortar on the upper surface of the vent inside the shoe on the south side so as to level the pipe's footprint.

          As for the asymmetry there are a few options. The front facade of the oven will probably consist of a stucco-like surface that wraps around the brick of the arch, vent, and chimney shoe. If the stucco is perfectly flush with the arch and vent (the shoe protrudes over the vent about 3/4" incidentally, look closely) then I could angle-grind the two external triangular bricks on the right side back a bit from the front face and stucco over them partially to simulate the appearance on the left side. Alternatively, my final stucco (surface bonding cement, whatever) surface might protrude out from the brick anyway, in which case I can do the same thing without grinding the brick back, just stucco over the right triangles a bit.

          It will depend on how the final enclosure comes together, so I'll figure it out then. I'm not too worried, so long as people don't get vertigo when they look at the oven.

          Website: http://keithwiley.com
          WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
          Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

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          • Re: 36" in Seattle

            Worry less, cook more.

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            • Re: 36" in Seattle

              Dude, with all due respect... You're on the right track knowing what is "wrong" and planning to correct it as best you can. Leave it at that. You're build is awesome and any imperfections you know about others probably won't. Besides, this is a one-off hand-built appliance and some of it's imperfections are actually assets. I know our build has many imperfections but they really add a sort of rustic charm. As Tscarborough says; "Worry less, cook more". Very profound statement. You obviously have a sort of vision of what you are striving toward. Do your best, but don't sweat anything that is less than perfection. I really believe that you'll be just as happy in the long run.

              You're building a fine oven. Any artisan "imperfections" make it much more interesting in my opinion. I know our oven is less than perfect, but I can't even describe how awesome the chicken we baked today in it was. We did baguettes too, and they were simply divine. Rustic imperfections somehow make it even better!

              Keep on keep'n on!

              Ken Morgan

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              • Re: 36" in Seattle

                If you will forgive me a short rant...

                I work in the masonry industry. I sell brick and CMU and all associated accessories, primarily for commercial and civil applications. The most aggravating part of my job is dealing with architects and engineers who do not have a firm grasp of masonry construction, yet attempt to design and implement masonry structures.

                I have spent the last 3 weeks clearing RFI's for submittals on a project dealing with the fire rating of CMU. 3 weeks of my life attempting to explain and educate degreed engineers and architects on a very simple and easy to grasp concept that is laid out in ASTM standards. One week involved the distinction between "silacious" and "contains silica". Another involved which of the 2 available standards to use, even though the design and material exceeded EITHER by over 200%!


                Here is what you should do. Take your level and your tape and visit the best example of masonry in your town. Use the level on corners, door frames, window frames etc. Use your tape on head and bed joints on random locations. You will find that they are not plumb and level or consistent.

                Now step back 50 feet and eyeball the same areas, and hold the level up for the run of masonry. Viola! It will be perfect.

                Mortar does not hold masonry together, it holds it apart, and allows imperfect units to form consistent structures.

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                • Re: 36" in Seattle

                  Originally posted by Tscarborough View Post
                  Here is what you should do. Take your level and your tape and visit the best example of masonry in your town. Use the level on corners, door frames, window frames etc. Use your tape on head and bed joints on random locations. You will find that they are not plumb and level or consistent.
                  Brilliant. Thanks.

                  Cheers!

                  Website: http://keithwiley.com
                  WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
                  Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

                  Comment


                  • Re: 36" in Seattle

                    Bought some firewood. The guy said it was two half-cords, one green maple that I'll use next year and one fir, dry and ready...plus a few cedar logs (in the background of the first photo). I realize they aren't ideal for oven use.

                    I'm not sure they actually look like half cords, but I don't want to bother myself about it too much. He was just so nice.

                    Also bought some materials for the enclosure: hardibacker, chickenwire, pretty basic stuff. I've already scored and snapped the 1/2" hardibacker several times without any trouble. Turned out to be pretty easy with the carbide-tipped scoring tool.

                    With any luck I might do a curing fire this weekend. All I need to do is stuff the InsWool under the screen.

                    Cheers!
                    Last edited by kebwi; 02-05-2010, 03:26 AM.

                    Website: http://keithwiley.com
                    WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
                    Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

                    Comment


                    • Re: 36" in Seattle

                      Keith, what do you mean by "bought some material for the enclosure"? I like the circus tent enclosure you have now. It's unique, colorful and keeps out the rain .

                      Seriously though, your fire wood looks good. I've found that the ONLY people to ever buy and receive a true, full cord of wood are those with full-size pick-ups that go there with their own trucks.

                      BTW: if you haven't done anything to the angular gaps, I'm with dmun. Yours are so small, I would leave them alone. I had a a couple larger gaps and I shoved mortar in with my fingers. Your interior is so beautiful, it would be hard to do that neatly.

                      Your oven looks great, well-made, artistic...I think your level must be defective, take it back

                      Cheers, Dino
                      "Life is a banquet and most poor sons-of-bitches are starving to death." -Auntie Mame

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                      My Oven Thread
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                      • Re: 36" in Seattle

                        I've just checked out your pictures- I think your oven looks great and any imperfections will not matter in the long run. Honestly, when you have a roaring fire going, so hot you don't even have smoke, just shimmering hot, any little nooks or crannies causing turbulence just won't matter. To cook pizza, what really matters is getting the fire pushed to one side and keeping a flame licking the roof, to recharge the floor. For cooking anything else, I have not found any of the oddball surfaces in my oven (and there are plenty) causing food to cook unevenly. As you cook in it, you'll figure out what works for YOUR oven and do that.

                        Get that baby closed up and cure it!

                        wishing we weren't smack in the middle of snowpocalypse 3.....I can't even GET to my oven, much less cook in it...
                        Elizabeth

                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/e...html#post41545

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                        • Re: 36" in Seattle

                          Originally posted by Dino_Pizza View Post
                          Keith, what do you mean by "bought some material for the enclosure"? I like the circus tent enclosure you have now. It's unique, colorful and keeps out the rain .
                          It precludes any notion of a chimney!

                          ...which has suddenly become a problem for me in the following manner. I would like to stuff the InsWool behind the screen and start doing curing fires this weekend while I frame the external enclosure. Clearly, this will require fully uncovering the oven to insert the stove pipe in the shoe on top of the vent. From that point forward, I will only be able to wrap a tarp up over the oven and pull it around the front like a cape. Thus, the front will be fully exposed. The problem with this is that the three inches of insulation board are completely unprotected along the front edge. If you look in some of my photos, I have a board lying up against the front edge to protect the board from physical damage during construction. I'm worried that rain gathering on the hearth will steadily soak the insulation board. I realize InsBlock 19 can get a little wet from time to time, but I don't know if it's acceptable for it to be really soaked and potentially never dry out again.

                          In fact...on a longer term, I have the same question with regard to how I finish the hearth. My intention is to build the hearth up several inches of course. The top of the oven floor is 5.5" from the hearth. I would like the final working surface of the hearth to be between 4.5" and 5.5", either flush with, or perhaps a little below the floor (to encourage rain to flow out instead of in and to ease ash removal. However I do this (pour more concrete, just pile up bricks, some other surface, I dunno) I will still have the same problem, of rain running down the front crack along the opening straight into the insulation board.

                          How do people suggest dealing with this? I am considering mortaring a strip of hardibacker along the front of the InsBlock (the mortar would only be along the bottom edge against the hearth as a water barrier). I dunno.

                          Website: http://keithwiley.com
                          WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
                          Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

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                          • Re: 36" in Seattle

                            Removed the suspended awning in prep for placing the stovepipe (and to ease work installing the insulation).

                            Installed the InsWool HP Bulk today. Two 25 lb boxes. The sidewalls are three inches thick while the apex is closer to six inches thick. However, the sidewalls are packed considerably more densely, so the whole oven may actually be equally insulated (which wasn't my intention but despite my best efforts and precalculations I was coming up short toward the apex). In an effort to save a little of the InsWool for the apex I poured vermiculite into the bottom three inches. You can see it in some of the photos. This was very messy. The large granules are properly contained behind the screen, but there is a pile of gold dust spilling through the screen onto the hearth now. It won't matter in the end since the whole thing will be poured with vermicrete but it's messy in the meantime.

                            By far the most tedious aspect of this job was sewing the screen into a dome shape with wire. For this reason alone I highly suggest that no one ever replicate my design. Use the blankets that everyone else on FB uses. Sewing a screen dome was absolutely back-breaking, literally.

                            Needless to say, the vent will be insulated solely by vermicrete. I just couldn't figure out how to cage around it with screen.

                            Photos continued in next post.

                            Website: http://keithwiley.com
                            WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
                            Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

                            Comment


                            • Re: 36" in Seattle

                              Continuation of previous post.

                              Website: http://keithwiley.com
                              WFO Webpage: http://keithwiley.com/brickPizzaOven.shtml
                              Thread: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...ttle-7878.html

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                              • Re: 36" in Seattle

                                hey keb,,,

                                nice job,, your almost threre....

                                cheers
                                mark

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