36" in Seattle

[Raffy]

Re: 36" in Seattle

In my experience, the fire needs to be big enough to curl up the inside of your dome almost reaching the keystone (and the logs should touch the dome to encourage drawing the flame up the dome wall). In my oven, that's critical for keeping the floor temps in the 750-800+ range. As soon as I move the ashes over to one side, I immediately throw on some logs and keep some burning while I'm cooking pizza.

Perhaps what I need to do is push the fire to one side, get it roaring on one side, then wait a few minutes to cook pizza. Maybe then the heat would beat down on the floor and bring it up to temp.

Hi, Keith. If you do it like you said, I think you will have no more problems with cooking floor temp. My rationale is that even if the dome gets to a high of even 1000F the floor still needs to catch up cause flames shoot up to the dome whereas the floor heats up through ambient heat. Add to that the layer of ash between the floor and the flame, the cooking floor will not heat up as fast as the dome.

Our fire in the pizzeria was similar to what sjmeff describes in his reply. Even then we waited a while before we started cooking. Keep in mind that this oven was running everyday and in the morning it was still hot enough to bake bread in, we still waited for the dome and floor temps to come closer to each other. The dome will always be hotter than the floor no matter what but when the flames arch across the interior of the dome almost to the other side, you can be assured that the floor is getting radiated with the flames heat.

I'm not 100% that this is the problem (an infrared reading could help confirm) but I'm 80% sure that if you can get the cooking floor to at LEAST 375 celsius (I prefer to cook pizza in the 400 C to 425 C range but its not a hard and fast rule) or 700F then you and the crust are golden.

Let me know how it turns out.

Raffy

[RTflorida]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Keith,
My thoughts on the floor temp and what I have found works for me:

I can burn my entire oven clean in 45 minutes with a huge blazing fire that encompasses at least 75-80% of the floor, and that is what I usually do. I have had a "cold floor" on a couple of occasions when I rushed the fire to the side as soon as the oven cleared. Problem is, heating the floor to the same temp (or close to it) takes a bit more time...remember, all of your heat is going up and the floor is under the fire, so it takes longer to saturate with heat. Once my dome clears I spread the fire and coals to cover almost every sq. inch of floor space. Over the next 15 minutes or so, I let the fire die down a bit but still keep it going pretty good, just not raging anymore. after that fully spread out 15 minute die down, I push the fire to the side (keep it going with at least 2 nice logs) and within the next 5-10 minutes (depending on how well I have prepped) I am placing my first pizza......To be sure, I ALWAYS shoot the floor with my IR, I'm a stickler for getting the pizza bottoms just right. Usually around 800 - 825 F is what it takes for the pizza I want.
If you want to do multiple pizzas, let your wife help. I know it tough, I HAVE to do everything myself, but I have failed miserably at making & placing every pizza, monitoring the fire and cooking them just right. My wife usually builds 50% of our pizzas now (don't tell her I said this, but she spreads dough better than I do now).

RT

[david s]

Re: 36" in Seattle

It seems the preparation of the pizzas is what takes the time, not the cooking. Why then have a huge oven if you only cook one at a time? Actually it is easier to manage multiple pizzas in a smaller oven because They are much closer to the entry and you don't need a peel with a six foot handle. What you do need to do is remove most of the coals then maintain a small fire. I have learned to cook 3x 9" pizzas at the same time in my little 21" oven. But I only do this if cooking for more than 20 people.Mostly like everyone else it's one at a time.We love to share and have a taste of whatever comes out rather than waiting for a personal pizza for each person. The main trick is to have your guests always have a pizza ready to shovel in.

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

And with a small fire you are able to keep your floor hot? That seems to me my primary ailment at the moment. Do you start cooking immediately after clean out the coals and push the fire to the side or do you reheat your floor from the side fire before cooking?

[KINGRIUS]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Have you guys been hand kneading the dough or are you using a Kitchenaid mixer with dough hook?
I have found my bread/pizza crust comes out so much lighter and crispier when I let the mixer knead the dough for a minimum of 5 minutes after the dough has reached the right consistency(no dry four @ bottom of bowl, dough not sticking to sides). It reaches a smooth and almost pasty(like drywall mud smooth) consistency. If you are hand mixing the dough, it may require longer and more vigorous kneading until the dough has reached it's smooth density.
I've picked up some other dough tips along the way:

Yeast activation- Start with your luke warm water and activation sugar, leaving out the salt for now. Mix in the yeast (instant dry has worked fine for me). Then add maybe half of your flour for the recipe and partially mix/knead until you have dough "stew". Let it sit for 5 minutes and you should see the bubbles everywhere. Then add the rest of your flour, salt, and oil if any.

Substitution of of dry beer malt(Breiss malt from your local brewer's supply) for activation sugar- Instead of using just sugar to activate my yeast, I've just started using dry beer malt. If a dough recipe calls for a tablespoon of sugar, I would double it when using the beer malt. When you taste the crust, it's too subtle a flavor for someone to be able to pick out the malt. But what I've found it to do is give the crust a more golden brown finish and it gives it a delicious crunch while still being moist and soft inside.

I don't remember if you said you already do this, but you can separate the portions of dough before it rises into tight round balls. This way when you start spreading it into a pizza it's more inclined to keep it's round form and resists tearing more. Working on you dough shaping techniques will help you obtain your perfectly round dough balls.

At the pizzeria I've recently been working, we use high-gluten flour. At home I just use store bought bread flour. And personally, I think the crust comes better with the bread flour. Hope some of these tips help!

Darius

[david s]

Re: 36" in Seattle

I usually shovel a pizza in after removing the coals, but only near the entry otherwise the first one gets a burnt bottom. Usually by the third one it's cooking perfectly and I shovel them into the centre.

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Filled the dry-stacked cores of the support wall for the extended counter.

I desperately want to start stuccoing the main structure but I'm scared of course...plus, I'm afraid of running out of colorant even though I believe I have more than I need. I'm considering doing the first SBC coat uncolored (white) and only coloring the second coat. Hopefully the second coat, at some substantial thickness, will be sufficient to avoid wearing through and exposing the white coat underneath...or maybe I should color the whole thing and not worry about running out. If I have both colorant and SBC left over at the end, I could apply a partial third coat until I run out, might leave some areas at two coats if I run out of course. Basically paralyzed by apprehension. Uuuuugh.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 36" in Seattle

As a rule, you only color the finish coat.

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Hey Keb,,
I was worried too that I didnt have enough colorant and SBC, I didnt..... When I mixed the next batch, I used exactly the same amounts as on the bag and bottle info and everything came out fine... Only problem was, I'm sure I said this before but just in case, The quikrete color faded a bunch after a few months,,, and after the winter the color faded tremendously... What kind of colorant are you using ??

Dont worry about it,,, It is just like frosting a cake,,, easy to do and hard to screw up.. Believe me just from seeing what you've done already you are MORE than capable...

Will you be adding the acrylic fortifier.. ??

If it makes you feel better, mix up a small batch of the sbc and practice on that inside wall in the first picture..

Cheers
Mark

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

As a rule, you only color the finish coat.

Oh, well that simplifies it. Sheesh, thanks.

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Hey Keb,,
The quikrete color faded a bunch after a few months,,, and after the winter the color faded tremendously... What kind of colorant are you using ??

I'm using the stuff you found for me on ebay; it's an iron oxide powder, which I believe is what Tscar recommended.

Will you be adding the acrylic fortifier.. ??

Yep. I'm still worried about waterproofing though. I'm shopping around for ideas for additional methods, additives, under/over coats, whatever. Quikrete makes something called Masonry Waterproofer, but no one here has ever mentioned it (I started a thread just about that particular substance alone and got no replies). I've also heard someone here mentioned Thoroseal, so that's another possibility. I'm not sure which coatings would affect the appearance of the SBC either in terms of texture or color. There seem to be so many waterproofing methods that I can't makes sense of them all.

If it makes you feel better, mix up a small batch of the sbc and practice on that inside wall in the first picture..

Hmmm, I handn't really intended to SBC the lower walls at all, just the oven. Not sure what I'll do on the lower walls, I would like to ledgestone them at some point. I really don't think SBC is necessary, may a simply parge, but nothing as expensive as official SBC, unless people think that's an important step to take in prepping the lower walls for ledgestone. What do you think?

Aside from that, I intend to begin by applying it to the base of the planter beds, for multiple reasons: No one will ever see it there because it will be buried under dirt, I won't color it there, at least the first coat, so I can practice in a section where I'm not wasting the colorant, and finally, if I do want multiple coats and the last coat is partial due to running out, then the bases of the planter beds should be most heavily coated areas. So, I think that'll work out fine. I'm still worried about it bonding to the hardibacker which seems like a pretty smooth substance, but oh well, everyone says it's not a problem.

Cheers!

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

With regard to waterproofing, as stated, my basic stucco will be multiple layers of Quikrete Surface Bonding Cement with Quikrete Acrylic Fortifier, but since I am exposing this oven to some serious water (planter beds, although they will be lined with plastic), I am looking for additional options.

Ideally, I would like an undercoat, not an overcoat, for the SBC, so that the external appearance isn't affected by any additional waterproofing. So I would need something that can first be applied to basic portland parge and hardibacker and second to which SBC can then be successfully applied, if that makes sense.

Recommendations welcome.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Thoroseal is an excellent product, and it can be tinted like the SBC. It is not troweled on, it is applied with a stiff brush (although you could trowel it if you wanted to).

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Would I apply Thoroseal as an undercoat or over the SBC? If the latter, how would it affect the appearance. Would the oven "look" painted instead of stuccoed?

[Tscarborough]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Final coat, it looks like stucco. Thoroseal is basically portland, marble dust, acrylic modifiers and graded sand, plus proprietary ingredients, probably stearic acids and water reducers.