Another Canadian pizza oven in the works

[Shawnr]

HI All

I have been planning a pizza oven for about a year now, off and on, but it is supposed to happen this summer. The more I read, the more I learn, but also feel that there is more that I don't know. ...
The plan is a wood fired oven, about 30-32 inches inside. We want to access it off of our deck which is about 5 feet from the ground level so this means about an 8 foot base. I am not quite comfortable with this size structure so trying to get a really good plan in place before even breaking ground. Also, being in Canada, and a semi isolated part of it, pizza oven resources are not readily available. I have found a ready made dome and floor available locally (from Barkman Concrete). They sell a kit for the whole oven but also can sell just the dome. I just don't think that it would be the same as an oven made from firebricks so am not big on it.

I have read most of the Pompei Oven Plans manual and not sure if it made me more secure or insecure...;-) Forno Bravo does reference a dealer in Toronto that might be able to supply the materials all at once so that would make things much easier for me, rather than dealing with the still closed borders. Although, the border should be opening up soon so getting products will become easier and cheaper. But the first hurdle is the base/stand.

Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself so that when I start firing questions out, at least I would have said Hi first!

Although, with so much info here already, I wonder what questions I would have that have not been answered. The build is happening at a cottage though and internet is not good there so I need to research when in town, then work when at the cottage.

Cheers,
Shawn

[UtahBeehiver]

Have you considered doing a homebrew cast oven. Nick JC from the UK did a really nice cast oven and documented his build well. With a cast oven the foot print could be smaller since the wall thickness is abt a CM. Also David S is our resident cast expert and his threads can steer you in the right direction.

[Shawnr]

Nope, don't know anything about a cast oven but will go look. Thank you UtahBeehiver

[MarkJerling]

HI All

I have been planning a pizza oven for about a year now, off and on, but it is supposed to happen this summer. The more I read, the more I learn, but also feel that there is more that I don't know. ...
The plan is a wood fired oven, about 30-32 inches inside. We want to access it off of our deck which is about 5 feet from the ground level so this means about an 8 foot base. I am not quite comfortable with this size structure so trying to get a really good plan in place before even breaking ground. Also, being in Canada, and a semi isolated part of it, pizza oven resources are not readily available. I have found a ready made dome and floor available locally (from Barkman Concrete). They sell a kit for the whole oven but also can sell just the dome. I just don't think that it would be the same as an oven made from firebricks so am not big on it.

I have read most of the Pompei Oven Plans manual and not sure if it made me more secure or insecure...;-) Forno Bravo does reference a dealer in Toronto that might be able to supply the materials all at once so that would make things much easier for me, rather than dealing with the still closed borders. Although, the border should be opening up soon so getting products will become easier and cheaper. But the first hurdle is the base/stand.

Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself so that when I start firing questions out, at least I would have said Hi first!

Although, with so much info here already, I wonder what questions I would have that have not been answered. The build is happening at a cottage though and internet is not good there so I need to research when in town, then work when at the cottage.

Cheers,
Shawn

Welcome!
At 8-9ft tall, just for the base, you're looking at quite a structure. As you're building something tall and relatively narrow, you're effectively building a pillar or small tower. As a starting point, if I was you, I'd engage a Structural Engineer to size the foundations for that structure and also to consider how to tie the tower to the foundations. At that height, you may also require a Building Consent, depending on the rules in your jurisdiction.
Kind regardss,
Mark

[Shawnr]

Mmmm...very good points Mark! I had not considered that. And then I am trying to not excavate down below our frost lines here, which are almost 5 feet deep so I think I might be setting my self up for disaster (although it might take a few years..) I have some engineering friends in various disciplines so will bounce some ideas around with them. Thanks for the input!
Cheers,
Shawn

[MarkJerling]

Shawn, with your frost line being almost 5ft deep, you're looking at (potentially) a frost heave problem. A frost protected shallow foundation (google FPSF) can work for bigger structures, but for something relatively small, I think you'll need to consider either going deep, or maybe your engineer can provide a solution that uses the existing deck foundations.
It sounds like a bit of a challenge, but I'm sure there will be a solution that's workable. At the end, ti allc omes down to $$$ of course! Good luck!

[Shawnr]

Well, I made progress on the weekend! I convinced my wife that a better location is a better idea. We will now be building a normal stand..... :-)

I built an 8 foot high mockup,, complete with mockup oven, which unfortunately, looked great when on the deck but she could see the size of the base. After trying out other locations and a gritted teeth discussion, we came to a mutual location that we are both happy with. So, off to the actual building....

The model is of a Polynesian design? (I think..) but not sure yet if I am building a "dome" or "tunnel", I prefer the dome style but gotta admit the other style is way easier to build. Still internally debating.

[UtahBeehiver]

I suggest you download and review the "free" eplans from Forno Bravo. They do a good overview of oven style and shape performance as well as a good baseline for construction and design.

[MarkJerling]

Well, I made progress on the weekend! I convinced my wife that a better location is a better idea. We will now be building a normal stand..... :-)

I built an 8 foot high mockup,, complete with mockup oven, which unfortunately, looked great when on the deck but she could see the size of the base. After trying out other locations and a gritted teeth discussion, we came to a mutual location that we are both happy with. So, off to the actual building....

The model is of a Polynesian design? (I think..) but not sure yet if I am building a "dome" or "tunnel", I prefer the dome style but gotta admit the other style is way easier to build. Still internally debating.

I think a dome only seems harder than a barrel arch "tunnel". For pizzas, a dome really is the easier option and th Forno Bravo plans are the best starting point. If you're not going to access off the deck, make sure you create a good size patio area. From the photos, you seem a bit close to the deck edge. I'd work on a minimum of 4x4m with 6x5m patio area better.

[Shawnr]

Thank you both for the input. I have read the plans, although there is so much good info in there that I need to reread them several more times. I think, now that I have a lower base, I will be going with the dome style. The other concern was space. The plans only really address a 36 and 42 inch oven which would become huge with insulation, and covering. That initially was what put me off of the dome style, especially when it was going to be 8 feet in the air! The barrel style seemed more compact, but I knew I would be sacrificing some efficiency. And then friends invited us down for pizza from their tunnel oven and it was very good, However, in further research, I find FornoBravo selling the kits for the smaller ovens, which leads me to believe that smaller is not wrong, just, as the instructions say, "if you have the space, might as well..." But I don't, so I think for us, the 32" will be lots. And with the gentle prodding above ;-) ....I am going back to a dome. When I reviewed the plans, the point of preheating came up and I remember that the tunnel oven was started a couple of hours before we got there so the efficiency of the dome was emphasized as I read somewhere that it could take less than an hour for preheat.

As for the patio, the oven will be just the cooking area. The deck will serve as the patio so I think it will work ok. The deck is about 8 feet away and the photos only show a general location/orientation of the oven. New stairs off the deck and a short walkway will take you right to the oven, tying it all together.

I suppose I should go start a thread in the Brick Oven Photos area for my build, but one more question here. I have been offered a stack of bricks that we think are firebricks. I cannot find any info on them. The word "Salina" is molded into them and I see a few brick companies in Salina (as well as Forno Bravo) but wondering if anyone would know if this is a firebrick or a building brick. I could not find a matching image online. Probably a dumb question cause I am pretty sure it is a fire brick but thought I would try to confirm. It weighs 8 pounds. If it is, I have a good start on the bricks required. Not sure how many are in the pile. And a neighbor game us several unused cinder blocks last year when we started talking about this project.

Thanks again.
Cheers, Shawn

[Giovanni Rossi]

Hello Shawnr,

I recognize the imprint on that brick. I believe it was made in Salina, Westmoreland County, USA. https://www.loc.gov/item/pa2826/

I worked in the Salina Brickyard in the summer of '79. I believe all we made was refractory brick and products. However, I only recall the bricks being yellow in color. I only worked there a short time and the yard closed a couple years later. I know a fellow who worked there for years. I'll send him your picture to see what he knows.

Giovanni

[Shawnr]

Thanks Giovanni Rossi ...yes, the brick is yellowish. I know the pic looks white but it is definitely more yellow. So it should be firebrick then.....cool! Thanks!!

[Giovanni Rossi]

Shawnr, The guy got back to me and said he was familiar with those fire brick and would NOT use them in a food oven due to the chemicals that were used at the time. I would respect his opinion on this as he is a fellow bread/pizza oven builder.

Giovanni

[Shawnr]

Thank you Giovanni Rossi . I lost out on them anyways to his son but I passed this information on to him. Goes to show that we should know our sources of materials. He did not know the history on them.
Regards
Shawn