angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

[johnnybrewmeister]

For the last course of blocks in the oven stand, the FB Pompeii plans call for 2" x 2" x 3/8" angle iron. Is this correct???
My local HomeDepot store carries 2" x 2" x 3/16" angle iron, and it seems like pretty strong & sturdy stuff. Looks like 3/16" thick is the most they have. I'm can't imagine 3/8" thick angle iron...that would be some honkin' serious stuff. Typo?
Are others using 3/8", or would 3/16" suffice?

Thanks!

[Les]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Johnny, are you referring to the span across the storage area? 3/8 must be a misprint - we're not building bridges.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Johnny, are you referring to the span across the storage area? 3/8 must be a misprint - we're not building bridges.

Yes, that is the area I'm referring to. I thought it MUST be a misprint, but it is referenced in multiple places, and my first print out is very old, so I checked online (latest copy of plans) to see if it is fixed - but it still calls out 3/8".
I know what you mean - I live in earthquake-country - but this still seemed a bit extreme...
I bought some 3/16" thick, glad I'm not the only one that thinks it should be ok.

[texman]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

that is plenty and the same that i used. you are good.

Texman

[deejayoh]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Plenty of people have built their lintel without any angle iron at all (myself included). You can pour an all concrete lintel - and as long as you put enough rebar in there, it will be fine.

[Toomulla]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

In Northern Australia where we build to resist cyclones the standard method of building is block work with window heads (lintels) built of reinforced block and concrete these often span three metres and in warehouse construction. Six meters so they will work on any size oven you can imagine

[NCMan]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Another option is to build an arch over your wood storage area. It can be done w/the concrete as a monolithic pour or be built w/bricks. Just know that there are other choices beside the FB Plans.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I'm right there with deejayoh.

They make special lintel cmu's but you can make your own our of regular blocks and a diamond saw blade in a hand grinder and a hammer and chisel.

When I built my stand I used lintel blocks and ran the rebar as a continuous piece: up vertically thru the holes in the blocks on one side of the opening and then across the top and down the other side of he opening, sort of like a large staple. The holes in the block get filled with grout and become a single unit. A couple pieces of rebar and one has an opening that is not going to crack at the corners in the event of an earthquake.

Likewise my top slab has rebar that goes up in the wall blocks then across and down into the blocks forming the outer walls of the stand. Also, if you are thinking ahead, when you lay out the form for the base slab you can mark where the holes in the first layer of block will be placed and bend stubs of rebar which are wired to the slabs rebar and become embedded in the slab pour. These stubs "lock" the walls to the slab when the holes are filled with grout.

Many will say way overkill, but I want my WFO to be standing and useable in the event we ever get "The Big One" the geologists say we are overdue for. It's not that much more work.

Hope this helps,
Wiley

[Laurentius]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I'm right there with deejayoh.

They make special lintel cmu's but you can make your own our of regular blocks and a diamond saw blade in a hand grinder and a hammer and chisel.

When I built my stand I used lintel blocks and ran the rebar as a continuous piece: up vertically thru the holes in the blocks on one side of the opening and then across the top and down the other side of he opening, sort of like a large staple. The holes in the block get filled with grout and become a single unit. A couple pieces of rebar and one has an opening that is not going to crack at the corners in the event of an earthquake.

Likewise my top slab has rebar that goes up in the wall blocks then across and down into the blocks forming the outer walls of the stand. Also, if you are thinking ahead, when you lay out the form for the base slab you can mark where the holes in the first layer of block will be placed and bend stubs of rebar which are wired to the slabs rebar and become embedded in the slab pour. These stubs "lock" the walls to the slab when the holes are filled with grout.

Many will say way overkill, but I want my WFO to be standing and useable in the event we ever get "The Big One" the geologists say we are overdue for. It's not that much more work.

Hope this helps,
Wiley

Wiley, my friend. I hope that you are standing if you get "The Big One"! I was here in Japan when the Big One, hit Kobe and to even think of your WFO surviving nature`s fury has anything to do with how if was built is nothing more than Man`s arrogance.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Laurentius, I surly didn't wish to come across as filled with hubris.

The idea is to be as resistant as possible and within reason, to improve the odds of survival in the event of "The Big One". "Event resistant" might be a better term.

IMHO surviving any calamity is most often a matter of luck. That being said there is nothing wrong with increasing the odds of surviving and minimizing damage in any calamity....wearing a seat belt, bicycle helmet, having an escape route etc. And beyond surviving the event, having the wherewithal to survive the aftermath is worthwhile.

And having redundant systems is a good idea.

Bests,
Wiley

[david s]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Regarding CMU's, in Australia there are two types of lintel blocks known as bond beams which have a U shape cast into the middle, or knock outs which are like a standard stretcher with cuts cast into the centres so you can simply knock the centres out. Or, as Wiley said you can make your own, although you have to be very careful not to break the whole brick.Anyway it is a much better way to do it than muck around with angle iron.
Regarding natural disasters, one of my ovens went through cyclone Yasi (a Cat 5), in 2013 I think. The oven was entirely underwater, from tidal surge, the house being on the beach, but miralulously undamaged, even the flue was still in place. After drying out it functioned normally again and is still in use today.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Great story David...I'll bet your submerged oven would win a few photo constests, eh?

Speaking of pics, do you or Wiley or anybody have pics of their build process showing the lintels? I'm having trouble picturing the details...I've googled a bit without luck. Maybe I should try some youtube videos?

Thanks,
Johnny.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Here's a link to a photo in my thread:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/atta...-bond-beam.jpg

The posting after that has photos of the rebar used in the oven support slab. The photo is from post #24 in my thread "Steel Dome Oven".

Bond beams can be built several different ways. In placing rebar it is good to remember that concrete is poor in tension. So the rebar is best if placed nearer the surface that is in tension.

Since the concrete lintel is under tension at the bottom and under compression at the top it is better to be placed nearer the bottom. If it were an overhanging or cantilevered slab placing it nearer the top of the slab is more productive.

Hope this helps,

Wiley

[johnnybrewmeister]

Wiley - gotit - thanks!
A picture works way more than a thousand words for my brain.
Working my way thru your build thread...thanks for documenting it all...giving me some great ideas.

Which reminds me: thanks to ALL who give details/pics of their buids - they are gifts that keep on giving, for people like me who can learn from them YEARS later.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Forgot to ask...filled the cores with what? grout? mortar? concrete?
Does it matter? if you have ingredient/portion ratios I guess that might help clear up some terminology confusion.

Thanks.