Water has gotten into my oven

[Dave T]

I have a FB Casa2G100 oven that I had installed last fall by a local stonemason/landscaper. It's built into an outdoor fireplace made of granite blocks (pictures below). I've done maybe 10 pizza cooks in it. Last night, we did another cook, and had a major problem with bringing the oven up to temperature. The dome was fine - over 1000 degrees as measured on my IR thermometer, but the floor wouldn't get above about 450 degrees, even after burning a hot fire for about two hours. In the past, it's taken about an hour to get the oven up to temperature. The problem was pretty clearly due to water having gotten in behind the oven. I had water visibly leaching out through the mortar above the door. There was also water leaching out through the oven wall itself above the opening to the oven. Also, the ceiling of the fireplace below (which is below the floor of the oven) was warm - 150 degrees as measured on my IR thermometer

So, my questions are:

* Is this a problem others have?

* Any thoughts as to how the water got in? My theory is that it is due to rainfall coming down the chimney, which then puddled and leaked under the oven door, and then soaked in through the gaps between the bricks in the floor.

* Any idea how to get the water out? I'm wondering if I should just burn it out by running a hot fire for - how long...? But by forcing steam out through the mortar between the bricks, could that cause damage? I wonder if drilling a hole up under the floor would let the water out.

* It seems like I need a cap over the chimney. Is that what most people do?

* Is there any permanent damage? I'm picturing that the insulation is now soaked, and might not work well anymore, even after it dries out.

Thanks. I'm planning on meeting with my contractor this week, and need some info to bring to the meeting if I'm going to confront him about how they screwed up.

- Dave

[Gulf]

I would like to see some pics of the back, and sides of the oven. But, at first glance, I don't see a cap on the flue. Rain water can come in through the outer arch if it is not fitted for a storm door. Also, if the oven entry landing is at the same level as the oven entry floor, that may be a problem.

[Dave T]

The back and sides are the same as the front - made of the granite blocks. There is no cap on the flue. I had asked them to put one in, but they still haven't done it. What is a "storm door"? I do have the door that came with the oven, and I keep that on there when it's not in use. And what level should the oven entry be? Above, or below, the oven entry floor? It is the same level, I thought that was how everyone did it.

[david s]

some prolonged gentle fires will restore your oven function. Try keeping it going for most of the day. I've found actually removing the door helps dry out the oven. One year after a few weeks of heavy tropical rain I noticed mould growing inside my oven, so now I remove the door when the rain has gone to help it dry out. Because the door is recessed, driving rain can sometimes get in to the oven in front of the door. The storm door idea is to make another door that fits flush with the front to prevent this.

[Gulf]

Other than, no cap for the chimney/flue, I don't see where the contractor messed up. But, that is a must. Just, get that corrected, do the drying fires as David advises and you will be fine.

As for as the storm door goes, they are not installed on most ovens. I have one because of where I live. Severe thunderstorms with straight line winds, and the occasional hurricane are just part of life for us. However, a recessed storm door is not a bad idea for any oven that is not under a roof imo.

Just to make sure that we are on the same page, I'm going to include a link to Forno Bravo's Pizza Oven Glossary. The oven floor and the "vent landing floor" are on the same level. The "oven entry landing" is that shelf which many install outside of the oven. It doesn't hurt for it to be a fraction of an inch lower and, or slightly sloped to drain water away from the oven. None of that is near as important for you as the chimney/flue cap.

I'm inluding a link to a Picasa Web Album of my storm door and oven entry landing.

I hope this helps.

[deejayoh]

If that oven is all masonry/stone, I would suspect that water is probably coming in through the mortar. It looks like it has lots of flat surfaces for the water to pool and sit. After as while, it can soak into the mortar, then it gets down to the concrete and soaks into your insulation. You need a surface that can shed the water. Even applying waterproofing on a flat surface, it will fail pretty quickly. Better to build the top at an angle.

[Gulf]

[QUOTE=deejayoh;n386598 It looks like it has lots of flat surfaces for the water to pool and sit.[/QUOTE]

True. If the bricklayer did not see the need for a chimney/flue cap, he may not have seen the need to cap those flat surfaces with atleast a sloping cap of mortar.

[Dave T]

Thanks for the responses! I just checked in and saw that there were replies here. For some reason, the site isn't notifying me of replies to subscribed threads.

Anyway...

Gulf - your oven looks great. Yes, as you can see in my pictures, I do have what I call a mantle in front of the oven, and it is unfortunately at the same level as the oven floor.

I see that you have an aftermarket door to your oven. Did you make that, or buy it? I could use a new door. The one that came with the FB oven tends to fall over in high wind. And the thermometer on it broke.

So do you think that all my water is from water that got inside the oven, and then seeped below through the gaps between the flooring bricks?

What about the fact that my insulation has gotten wet? Should I be concerned about that?


And again - when I burn a fire, water is coming out through the mortar between the bricks that contain the oven. Nowhere's near the oven itself. Seems like there must be a ton of water in there.

Deejay - did you look at the picture of the top of my oven? Do you think water is coming in through that mortar? Into the oven? That is a good 4 feet above the oven itself... At this point, the oven is built, hard to modify it to shed that water, but if you have any thoughts - please let me know!

[Gulf]

Thanks Dave T,

And Relax. Water cant hurt the FB insulation permanently. But, it does need to be dried out. And, you need to keep further water from getting in to the oven for it to perform at it's max. Again, the chimney flue cap should be at the top of your to do list. That is a big hole. Rain, and snow can fall directly on to your vent landing and flow from there to your oven floor and down into the insulation underneath. After reading this last post, David S. will probably advise to drill a hole up through the hearth slab up to the insulation layer. That would not be a bad idea since, I doubt that, your insulation layer is elevated above the hearth.

As for as waterproofing of the exterior of your oven: I'm still not sure about how it is actually consructed. You mentioned a pic to Deejayoh of the top of your oven. If your oven is all masonry and stone, it is not too late to place a sloping water resistant cap on those flat surfaces. (If that was not done during the origional construction) Some more pics of those flat areas would help!

If Forno Bravo would offer an OEM insulated door for each of their ovens, I think that it would be a monetary boost for them and some great savings for the FB owner/installers (Please take note of this Mitch (fbfireoven) ). My insulated door, like many on this site, was home made. Many others were outsourced to local metal shops. I used thin carbon sheet metal to fab my door. It has 4" of CalSil inside for insulation. I made it myself and did the fab work in my brother's metal shop. It is a little on the heavy side, but it works great! I'm a little conserned about you saying that your door is knocked over during high wind. If it is placed at the inner arch, where it is designed to fit, that should not happen very often. A kick down door stop would help.

PS: Check your user Setting/Notifications. Make sure that every box is checked. Also, check that your email is not blocking FB messages.

[david s]

Yes Joe, I would recommend a hole be drilled up through the supporting slab to allow water to drain out. In addition a quality clear sealer over the whole exterior wouldn't be a bad idea and may have to be repeated annually. Looks like the main problem is the lack of a chimney cap though.

[cobblerdave]

G'day
I recessed my insulation in my slab. Yes it filled full of water. A couple of holes drilled from below relieved the pressure.
I have a full chimney cap. That exudes rain down the chimney. Your fire brick is not an exterior brick it loves to soak up water.
I have an exterior "storm door" to stop wind blown rain from blowning in on the hearth.
Your oven will not work at all well if that insulation has encases the oven like it needs too.... Is then is continuously wet.
Regards dave

[Dave T]

Gulf - it sounds like you haven't seen the pictures of my oven (?) They are attached to my first post above.

Regarding drilling the hole - I'll talk to my contractor about doing that. Are you saying I should leave a permanent hole? Or just drain it and plug it back.

cobblerdave - I can't make sense of your post. What do you mean about the oven not working if the insulation "has encases the oven like it needs to". I'm wondering if you're referring to something that I need to ask my contractor.

Regarding my settings - I do have the site set to notify me on new posts to this thread. I got one email on the first reply, but haven't gotten any since.

[UtahBeehiver]

I think I can answer for Gulf, Leave the hole open permanently, silicon a small piece of window screen over the hole to keep the bugs out, ie ant or spiders, etc. On Cobblerdaves, comment, the ovens should be full encapsulated with insulation, meaning no part of the oven touches the concrete hearth, walls, etc. If it does, it acts as a heat sink.Solving what is causing the insulation getting wet is the other issue, My money is on the vent piping with no cap. It may take several slow burn fires to get everything dry again.

[admin]

Thanks Dave T,

And Relax. Water cant hurt the FB insulation permanently. But, it does need to be dried out. And, you need to keep further water from getting in to the oven for it to perform at it's max. Again, the chimney flue cap should be at the top of your to do list. That is a big hole. Rain, and snow can fall directly on to your vent landing and flow from there to your oven floor and down into the insulation underneath. After reading this last post, David S. will probably advise to drill a hole up through the hearth slab up to the insulation layer. That would not be a bad idea since, I doubt that, your insulation layer is elevated above the hearth.

As for as waterproofing of the exterior of your oven: I'm still not sure about how it is actually consructed. You mentioned a pic to Deejayoh of the top of your oven. If your oven is all masonry and stone, it is not too late to place a sloping water resistant cap on those flat surfaces. (If that was not done during the origional construction) Some more pics of those flat areas would help!

If Forno Bravo would offer an OEM insulated door for each of their ovens, I think that it would be a monetary boost for them and some great savings for the FB owner/installers (Please take note of this Mitch (fbfireoven) ). My insulated door, like many on this site, was home made. Many others were outsourced to local metal shops. I used thin carbon sheet metal to fab my door. It has 4" of CalSil inside for insulation. I made it myself and did the fab work in my brother's metal shop. It is a little on the heavy side, but it works great! I'm a little conserned about you saying that your door is knocked over during high wind. If it is placed at the inner arch, where it is designed to fit, that should not happen very often. A kick down door stop would help.

PS: Check your user Setting/Notifications. Make sure that every box is checked. Also, check that your email is not blocking FB messages.

Thanks for the shout out Joe! Forno Bravo does sell replacement doors for FB ovens. You just need to contact us directly because if the oven shipped over a year ago, we want to work directly with the owner to get a template from them and we'll make it that specification to ensure fit and function. The door thermometer is availabe in the FB Store.

Mitch

[Gulf]

Dave T,

I just reread and caught the part about the "outdoor fireplace". And, to be honest, have just now clicked on pic number four. That is a "stretch" to stack the two . I guess that the two uncapped liners on either side of the vent are for the fireplace. Without knowing how it is designed, that is probably another mega source of water for your flooded oven. Get a cap to cover all three and while your contractor is there get some spark arrestors installed. I would still like to see another couple of pics from a level slight above above the the first tier step in. I can't tell If a sloping bed of mortar was installed from the pics. All of the advice you have recieved from everyone above is great! Don't "can" any of it. You have a complicated setup. But, I am sure that we, as a forum, can get your oven back to specs .

Edit: This is a repost from an entry lost during the mugration.
Sorry Mitch, ( fbfireoven ) thanks for clearing that up. I did not know that Forno Bravo offered insulated doors.