I'm back

[Amusinglisa]

Hi everyone.

I had a "friend" who was doing my oven build - he wanted the experience and was interested in the project. It turns out that I have a half finished oven and it is not getting any better with sitting for a year.

I need a few pieces of advice:

1.It appears that all the bricks are cut and numbered according to row. I am not certain that I have enough of each size, but it looks pretty close.

2. It seems this is roughly following the FB instructions and a cutting spreadsheet, though I am not sure which one. Bricks are cut with a side-to-side taper as well as a top-to-bottom taper. Starting with the first row as 1, on row 4, the bricks have been laid with the wider part up and the narrower part down. I am pretty sure this is wrong and that they need to be turned over - yes?

3. Row 4 is also set back a bit from the row below it, leaving about a 1/3" lip under it and the bricks are all slightly angled so that the surface is sort of stiair-stepped horizontally - a bit like a herringbone, I suppose. This leads me to think I need to take that row off, which is the socond reason.

4. the entry has not been formed, though I have a form that was built for it. If I remove the 4th row, I think that would mean we form the opening first - before we re-lay that row, right?

5. I am having a tough time wrapping my head around the vent build. Do I build my arch in the opening, build a partial arch - two or three bricks - then build a second arch some space away? If I do, do I need to fabricate a vent or is the gap in the bricks sufficient?

6. If I leave a gap about 3" deep and about 10" wide, can I build another row of bricks up so that the opening becomes smaller and I can fit a chimney in there?

7. Some of me wonders if this is hopeless and I should just tear it all down and have my yard back. sigh. Encouragement would be very much appreciated.

I hope to put photos in a reply just in case the monkey up the post.

Thank you!!

[UtahBeehiver]

Is your friend still your friend? LOL.

1. Since you bricks are already pre-cut this is the hand you are dealt with. Typically, due to variances, there are adjustments required to angles, size, etc.
2. So we are talking the same language, in the attached pic, taper = angle, top/bottom taper = bevel. The wider part of the bevel is on the bottom to avoid what is called the "inverted V".

3: If you are using a properly configured "IT" then there should not be any stair stepping. How are the angles of the course being set?
4. You need to decide on type of entry, full arch, hemi arch, etc. It is much easier to tie the dome into an arch then visa versa. Good rule of thumb, keep arch ahead of dome courses.
5. You need to do some more reading on vent size, nutshell, square inches of vent opening should be at least equal to the square inches of the chimney stack ID.
6. Ditto to 5, but IMHO 3" deep is too shallow.
7. Post pics so we have a better concept of where you are at on the build.

[Amusinglisa]

If the IT is correct, it seems that all the rows are off...??? I am trying not to be discouraged...

[Amusinglisa]

[SableSprings]

Glad you're back and sorry that your friend didn't need the experience of actually finishing a build. Russell hit all of your questions and as he noted as soon as you post some pics we'll all be able to help in more detail. Don't be discouraged...it sounds like you really have a good start here and if your ex-friend () cut the bricks according to the Forum spreadsheet (Forno plans did not have that feature) you may be in
great shape.

Hang in there, getting a working oven will be a lot easier and better (IMHO) than tearing it all out for a patch of grass (obviously, I'm not a fan of the mowing and maintenance involved with a "green" backyard ).

[Amusinglisa]

Hi Utah -- I was raised in what is not Murray, but was then "Cottonwood" in uninc. SL county!

1. not so much friends. ugh.
2. at least on row 4, the bevel is set with the wider part at the top.
3.If you can see the photos, the IT is not the same distance from all the bricks. I was pretty sure during the course of the work that there was some problem with understanding how the IT is supposed to work...
4. 5. &6. I am having a tough time getting the concept in my head of what the vent should look like when it is done, so I don't have answers there. IF I can manage to make an arched entry that I build with the dome, can I do the vent and the entry "tunnel" after the dome is done?
7. see above
8. THANK YOU!!!

[SableSprings]

Thanks for posting the pictures...it really helps...and obviously we're almost in a chat room situation right now! It looks like one too many bricks were cut for the "stepped" rows and in order to compensate, the entire row was enlarged instead of simply removing one or cutting a thinner wedge. It also looks like actual brick laying was partially to blame. A temporary wedge or more mortar on the outside edge to make the inner surfaces curve together would have resolved the issue. The good part is that some irregularities in the dome walls are not fatal for the oven. I suspect that you'll be able to do a far better job from here on in...and remember, people look at the pizza (or anything coming out of the oven) not the perfection of the inside dome build

4, 5, 6 - Yes, you can do the arched entry without the chimney/vent/smoke chamber. You actually see plenty of useful ovens that don't ever put in these features...the adobe ovens of the SW for instance. So concentrate on finishing the dome and arched entry. As you gain some experience and read some more on the forum, you'll be able to start answering those questions.

[Amusinglisa]

Should I use the bricks that have the funky parital bevel and taper (with the lip) for the arch? I think if we wedge them a bit we can set them up as an arch that can support itself (which is the goal, right?).

Small mortar batches and lots of time to harden?

[Amusinglisa]

We are planning on the vent because I have an artist friend who plans on making the outside of my oven into a Kelpie. If it works, it will all be SO much cooler than a patch of grass, though my four-legged mowers will beg to differ...

[Amusinglisa]

OH! Oven door. I am not sure I can cut one to exact size - my metal skills are fence-fixing quality - but I thought I saw where one could buy one...?

Perhaps I should follow the form closely and have one made. I think I have a blacksmith friend somewhere -- and it is a shorter committment...

[UtahBeehiver]

Well hello ex UTE,

The IT appears to the main source of the issue here, rather the pivot point of the IT. The pivot point should at the floor elevation and not raised up. The platform that the IT sits on appears to be about 4 inches off the floor. This causes cumulative errors in the brick face alignment inside the dome and the higher you go the worst it gets. So what to do? In the pics I see some tilting of the brick more than the IT face, this is actually a good thing for you. Move the platform down to floor level, you will need to make tilt and diameter adjustments over several courses to get back on track but you have course to work with.

Parts of the vent
Inner Arch - what the dome ties into
Vent Arch - should be min 1" larger diameter on each side of the inner diameter of the Inner arch (this is for what we call the reveal or something for the door to seal against. Again the vent chamber opening for the chimney needs to have the same or more square inches as you chimney vent.
Outer or Decorative arch. Your current arch form does not allow for a revel.

[Amusinglisa]

So, drop IT to floor -- easily done and bigger arch for the reveal -- I think we can get that figured out - and need area of chimney opening to calculate vent. On it! Thank you.

[UtahBeehiver]

The inner arch height should be about 63-65% of the dome height. IE 32" oven should be a 16" dome height so inner arch height should be 0.63 to 0.65 of 16" or abt 10" to 10 3/8" high more or less.

[Amusinglisa]

OK. Mortar. I *think* I am supposed to use 20 sand:4 cement:5 hydrated lime. Does that sound right?

[Amusinglisa]

Layout of interior arch