Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

[Archena]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

How about a hedgerow? By the time you are ready to spend the money on the fence the hedge can be well grown. There are a number of types and a lot of fast growing trees that will work.

[ebbro]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

What kind of fence costs $30/ft? You built an oven - I'm sure you can build a fence if labor is driving the cost.

Video camera is a great idea - a friend's neighbor kept letting her dog crap on his lawn during her morning walk until my friend's wife videotaped them walking by one day. Neither woman said anything and there was no pit stop that day or any other day after that.

[cynon767]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

How about a hedgerow? By the time you are ready to spend the money on the fence the hedge can be well grown. There are a number of types and a lot of fast growing trees that will work.

I recommend a nice hefty bamboo. Grows into a completely opaque dense hedge within about 3 years, and if contained by a rhizome barrier, even the most invasive species of running bamboo are manageable. Since bamboo spreads via lateral rhizomes which travel near the surface, a heavy HDPE barrier will prevent roots from spreading. Alternately, plant a clumping variety of bamboo in a strategic location, and it won't spread. It also won't fill in to give you a quick screen, though.

This site would be a good place to look into appropriate species for your climate. I know many people are scared to plant something potentially invasive; but there's nothing better for a fast-growing, attractive green barrier. Plus, many of the varieties, Phyllostachys species in particular, are quite tasty: harvest the new shoots when under a foot tall, split open, and roast or steam.

For what it's worth, I feel for you. When I first built the oven, A few days after my first cooking fire, I got a knock on the door from by a city inspector notifying me of a complaint. I never found out who it was who had called, but in the end they did me a favor: I had tried to get answers about codes from the help desk to no avail, and here I could get it from the horses mouth. When I told the inspector that I had built it freestanding, with a spark arrestor, obeying all setbacks and without any electricity or gas, he told me that he didn't even need to inspect it. It was fine by building codes; and per fire codes, since it was a cooking device rather than a recreational or heating implement, there was basically nothing to be inspected. A huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. I can't say for sure, but I expect that the same will happen for you. If/when she finally gets the fire marshall out there, he will calmly glance over it, smile, and tell you to have a nice afternoon.

And, maybe or maybe not related, we also have a neighbor whose window looks almost directly into our back yard. Attached are pics showing 2 years growth of the bamboo I planted in a narrow strip in the alley... this is how I came to be a fan of the bamboo!

[azatty]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Keith:

I did some research specifically on the legal issues, and here's what I found:

In Bradley v. American Smelting and Refining Co., 104 Wash.2d 677, 709 P.2d 782 (Wash. 1985) the Washington state Supreme Court answered several questions certified to it by the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington related to the civil claims available to a plaintiff when emissions from a smokestack cause microscopic particles to be deposited on the plaintiff's property.

The Washington Supreme Court determined that if the particles are transitory or dissipate quickly, the particles are merely a nuisance. If the particles do not dissipate (think, heavy metals), the plaintiff has a cause of action under a trespass theory, which is an intentional tort.

A "nuisance" under Washington law is "unlawfully doing an act, or omitting to perform an act, which act or omission either annoys, injures, or endangers the comfort, repose, health, or safety of others, offends decency, or unlawfully interferes with, obstructs, or tends to obstruct, or render dangerous for passage, any lake or navigable river, bay, stream, canal, or basin, or any public park, square, street, or highway; or in any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property." RCW 7.48.120.

So the first thing the neighbor has to prove is that you are acting unlawfully, such as firing on a no-burn day or violating some other restriction.

Division One of the Washington Court of Appeals tossed a case last year involving one neighbor suing the other for smoking in his own back yard. The plaintiff complained that the smoke infiltrated into his ventilation system and then into his house. The plaintiff sued both under a nuisance theory and trespass. The Court of Appeals said that the plaintiff had not provided any legal authority that prohibits a person from smoking in his or her own back yard, and therefore the first element of a nuisance could not be satisfied. The Court of Appeals did not reach the question of trespass, because the plaintiff did not bring a claim under the relevant statute (or at least did not cite to it). Unfortunately, that case was not published, so it cannot be used as precedent. The name of the case, though, is Boffoli v. Orton (Christopher Boffoli was the plaintiff, Keith and Carmen Orton and Boaz and Jeni Hall the defendants). You may be able to find it under the "memorandum decisions" at the Court of Appeals.

Courts from other states have held that smoke from a furnace can be a nuisance, but the amount of smoke being produced must be unreasonable and noxious and malodorous. The same courts have also required proof of actual and substantial damages. Where health issues have been cited as the "damage," claims made by people who smoke (or who live with smokers) are not taken very seriously.

As for her sniping, that's an easy injunction against harassment.

You should consult a local attorney for proper legal advice on the issue. I'm not licensed in Washington.

[WJW]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Another attorney's two cents...

First, make sure you really are legal. The fire department is not going to give you a stamp of approval. Either you are legal, or you are not. Go on line and research your local codes to see what the regs are. If you can't figure it out yourself go to the building department and inquire as to where you could find the regs on building "masonry BBQ's and that sort of thing". Do not volunteer that you have one..just ask for help determining what is allowed under the regs. It is written down somewhere...you just need to find it. If you can't get it done hire a lawyer, pay him for an hour of his time, and let him research and answer the question for you and print you a copy of the applicable regs.

Once you are sure you are legal, the strategy here is to ignore her...or at least pretend to ignore her. I know this sounds far easier than it really is, but (short of murder) it's the only way to deal with the situation. I have represented people who have been unfortunate enough to have neighbors who were lunatics. It really is a nightmare and can be all-consuming for some people. I have literally seen people (or their insurers when defending them) spend tens of thousands of dollars in litigation...for neighbor disputes over crap just like this.

The only thing that works is to make sure you are operating within the law, build a fence, and ignore her. If she cusses at you over the fence, turn on your tape recorder and call the police. They'll warn her the first time. The second or third time they'll cite her for disturbing the peace. If they won't then you tell them you'll place her under citizens arrest and cite and they'll release her.

Send her a letter (return receipt requested) asking that she stop annoying you, denying that you are damaging her house, and offering to pay the cost of having the "soot" analyzed to prove that it is actually mold. The fact that she has refused speaks volumes. Have a copy of the letter and the applicable fire code/regs handy which show that your oven is within code. When the police or fire marshal shows up remain calm, polite, speak in low tones, and explain that the poor woman next door is crazy and has been out of control for months. Explain how she yells at the neighbor kids for riding their bikes, and is a suspected cat hoarder. (I'm sort of joking about the cat thing.)

Show the policeman the nice polite letter you sent her offering to have the mold on her house tested. Explain to the policeman that you have done nothing wrong, wish that she would leave you alone, but be politely adamant that you intend to continue lawfully using your "Tuscan bar-b-que" unless he can show some law that says you aren't allowed to.. (I think calling it a BBQ makes it a lot more understandable to the avverage Joe...what kind of nut would complain about a BBQ). Throw a Tuscan Grill inside to complete the picture.

The fire dept is not going to roll up and hose down your oven unless it's in danger of burning up a structure. The fact that "someone is complaining" is not enough to cause you to be ordered to put it out. The system operates on laws. If you are truly legal here (and it sounds like you are), then nobody is going to order you to put your oven out unless it is about to catch something on fire. They may "suggest" that you do so because cops and firemen will sometimes take the path of least resistance in these situations. But if you are legal, rational, calm, and adamant, you will carry the day ninety-nine times out of a hundred.

After you get your ducks in a row as described above...have at it. Ignore her and use your oven frequently. Hell, warm it up at least once a week just to stretch the mortar joints. It will be uncomfortable the first few times, but she will quickly learn that she can't bully you. If she invades your space or starts disturbing your peace, call the police. Don't cuss at her. Don't drop to her level. Never raise your voice. Don't even respond to her. Just turn on your videorecorder to tape her b.s. and call the police when she breaks the law. (If she is doing that sort of thing leave your video recorder on a stand off to the side the first few times you fire your oven. Sticking a camera in someones face is bad form and aggressive...but no one can complain if there is a tripod sitting unobtrusively on the other side of the yard taking it all in.)

As was said above, if you can build an oven you can build a fence. Check your local building codes for the maximum height and build it one inch lower than the max.

Good luck and eat some pizza,

Bill

[Aussie Pete]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

great advice Bill.

[Archena]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

...

and is a suspected cat hoarder. (I'm sort of joking about the cat thing.)

...

That's 'feline collective caretaker' to you!



There's a cat hater in every crowd*....
























































































*Any resemblance to seriousness is purely coincidental - unless you really do hate cats.

[WJW]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

It goes without saying that when I impugn "cat hoarders", present company is excluded.

Bill

[brickie in oz]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

There is a feline between cat lovers and haters.....

[Archena]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

It goes without saying that when I impugn "cat hoarders", present company is excluded.

Bill

Aww, well, that's different, then...










Um, wait...















Hey!!

[Lburou]

Keith's thread

Not trying to be catty here...

But Keith has a serious problem. I wonder what the latest is on his situation? I don't see him post in this thread very often.

[Aussie Pete]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

yes...i'm interested to know the latest also.

I have a pretty close neighbour behind me, and i just hope i dont have this kind of trouble either. i was thinking about placing a flat fan that i could lay on the base of the back of the oven and blow upwards drawing smoke up up & away, might help with lingering smoke drifting into neighbours yard. May also be beneficial for the flue to help draw out. Thoughts anyone??
Nothing worse than wingeing neighbours that can ruin your idea of fun in the backyard with a beer & an oven. I'll try anything to prevent this from happening

[robertjusher]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Just give a pizza now and then, keep them on side!

[wotavidone]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Aussie Pete, Its been a while since I read this thread, so I can't say I know whether anyone's mentioned it or not, but here in South Oz at least, much of the problem with smoke and neighbours is covered by a minimum height requirement on your flue.
Here in OZ blokes practically live in their sheds, and a pot belly is just about mandatory for the winter.
So there is a minimum height the flue must go above the ridge line of your shed, can't remember what it is. I suggest a nice tall flue would be the simplest and most efficient way of getting your smoke up and away from your neighbours.
Regards,
Mick

[Aussie Pete]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

thanks Mick, i have 2 pieces of single thickness flue about 4ft long, i should really go the double insulated flue, but i was given these, so i'll use them. I cant seem to find any legal or regulations stuff on the net regarding smoke/ovens/fires/flues for the gold coast area (anyone know).
Is there a maximum flue height you should really not go to, or is it a matter of the higher the better. My thinking is the higher the better, it would mean the top would be in the air stream and help draw (so to speak)....any thoughts??