My Pompeii Design

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

He said he was less than happy with the oven having too little smoke. A well built, properly dried, correctly fueled oven won't be smoky. It was meant to be tounge in cheek, not literal.

It's all good mate, I took it in the spirit intended.
It gave me a bit of a grin, but surely I'm not the first? Most people I meet who have never had wood oven pizza expect it to be smoky, and are surprised when it isn't really. After all this time, it still blows me away how efficient these things are.

Adam, in a standard Pompeii, you can move the fire around to influence where the heat ends up, in addition to how much fire you build. The firebox thing would result in lower max temps, too.
However, I can see a couple of advantages with your oven design.
For example you could raise the temp in your oven while the bread is still in there. If I find the temperature of my oven has dropped further than I would like when I'm baking bread, I can't do much about it.
And smoking would be a little easier, I think. Might even be able to do cold smoking.
I suggest that if you make the flue of such a size that you can match it to some sort of drop in firebrick plug, you could make this quite versatile - use the remote firebox for the slower cooking tasks, or plug the flue with a drop in brick and light the fire inside the dome for the times you want 90 second pizzas.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

If I wanted to smoke up whatever I was cooking, then it would be as simple as putting green wood on the coals. That might be a worth experiment next time I have a steak in there.

I wouldn't even relate this design to a black oven or a masonry heater at all, but closer to a hot smoker.

[david s]

Re: My Pompeii Design

When cooking a roast I sometimes toss half a handful of smoking chips onto some leftover coals, place the roast, close the door. With no oxygen available the chips smoke nicely rather than burn with flame.

[Gulf]

Re: My Pompeii Design

David,
I've been doing something similar, lately. Though, I start the chips outside the oven. Same principal as your's, with the door shut, they don't flame up.



I use an old ss water strainer basket, but there are some "readimades" marketed for BBQ folks. This repurposed contraption works great in my oven using small chips .

Edit: In the smoked up ss bowl on the right, I am doing something like you, The coals are in the bottom of the pan. Placed on top of them are the left overs from cutting up onions. A great smell and flavor boost for the smoke.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

That is a great idea Gulf. I have one of those chip boxes made for grills, but I like the look of that thing better.

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

I do the old throw in a bit of wood and close the door thing too.

That works for flavoring, but it's not the same as using smoke to disinfect food and dehydrate it, which is what you are doing when you make ham, bacon, smoked jerky, biltong, etc.

I was looking for some positives in this design.
Too be honest, there aren't many. Certainly not enough to justify the extra expense and complexity because, really it'd never be as good as a proper smoke box for making mettwurst, salami, etc.

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Yeah I had the idea too of having the external firebox potentially as an auxiliary heat source and/or for a second method of cooking. However, I am thinking now that the costs are too high for the benefits of the design. I'll keep posting here for relevant heat management topics (i.e. once I test my refractory materials). I have a question for you guys. Has anyone tried to sear meat on the oven floor? If so, what temperature should the floor be and what was your method?

Thanks guys,
Adam

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. While I'm still talking about heat management, does anyone have suggestions about temperature monitoring (i.e. thermocouples, RTD's). I would love to have real-time data about my oven temperatures at specific locations in the dome. I realize that they do not have too much of a practical use once you get to "know" your pizza oven. However, I would love to have this system as a novelty. I already have an infrared gun (rated up to 1000F), but am still interested in a temperature monitoring system. I searched the forums for people who have built this type of system, but did not find too much details on their setup or even specific products they used (brands, type of displays, etc.). What are your thoughts?

Adam

[Greenman]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Yeah I had the idea too of having the external firebox potentially as an auxiliary heat source and/or for a second method of cooking. However, I am thinking now that the costs are too high for the benefits of the design. I'll keep posting here for relevant heat management topics (i.e. once I test my refractory materials). I have a question for you guys. Has anyone tried to sear meat on the oven floor? If so, what temperature should the floor be and what was your method?

Thanks guys,
Adam

Hi Adam

I haven't cooked any meat directly on the floor of my oven but often use a tuscan grill to cook meat, steaks particularly and butterfly lamb leg. The steaks take about 60 seconds each side when the oven is fairly hot and they are prime. The lamb I cook a bit away from the coals and cook it much slower. It all ends up moist and very tasty.

I am not into meat still dripping blood but because of the radiant and reflected heat this method cooks quickly and thoroughly.

I don't have any thermocouples or technology other than an IR Thermometer (which gets less and less use as time goes by) and I reckon that learning about the performance of your oven from scratch and experience is part of the magic of this ancient cooking appliance.

Just my humble opinion.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

I have, and the oven makes great dirty bacon too. I do prefer cooking meat by raising a grilling screen with a couple bricks and using coals underneath. Direct floor method is great when you're in a hurry, and it does a fine job.

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

I am not into meat still dripping blood

What!!? Nothing better than a nice rare steak.
Knock his horns off, wipe his arse, throw him on a plate.
The blood just makes a nice dressing for the salad, I reckon.

Lamb, goat and venison should still be at least pink inside.

I do believe chicken and pork should be fully cooked.

[Greenman]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Hey Wota - I don't do the done to death thing either. All of the little creatures are good on the pink side. I have not encountered the horns - arse - plate since I was in Far North Queensland loading cattle for the railways a very long time ago. We used to call them 'Agents Picnics'. Usually involved the one out of the 750 head being loaded that would not run up the race.

Venison is beyond my experience but I will take young goat before any lamb day.

The rib bone tells the difference between lamb and goat and rabbit and cat.

Kentucky Fried and it all tastes like chicken!!

[Paul_H]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. While I'm still talking about heat management, does anyone have suggestions about temperature monitoring (i.e. thermocouples, RTD's). I would love to have real-time data about my oven temperatures at specific locations in the dome. I realize that they do not have too much of a practical use once you get to "know" your pizza oven. However, I would love to have this system as a novelty. I already have an infrared gun (rated up to 1000F), but am still interested in a temperature monitoring system. I searched the forums for people who have built this type of system, but did not find too much details on their setup or even specific products they used (brands, type of displays, etc.). What are your thoughts?

Adam

One thing I've learned after 20+ years working as an engineer is that when you come across a design that has been in use for a long time, and in the case of a WFO we're talking 2+ milenia then it is an excellent engineering design.

It may appear simple, it may just beg for "upgrading" but I can assure you that there has been a tremendous amount of R&D over several generations to perfect the design that is still in use today.

Sure, we're using modern materials and tools that may be "better" in some ways. But I'm just old enough to appreciate the approach of, "Build it to the plans, and enjoy it!"

[jeeppiper]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Well said, Paul.

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

We used to call them 'Agents Picnics'. Usually involved the one out of the 750 head being loaded that would not run up the race.

Venison is beyond my experience but I will take young goat before any lamb day.

That'll teach that pesky steer to do what it's told.

Venison is magnificent meat, if you can knock off a young one. The backstrap, cut into medallions and just cooked. Yum.
My youngest son is not a big meat eater at all, but he rates venison higher than any steak he's ever had, and tucks in when it's on the menu.
Trying to organise a goat shooting trip soon. I haven't eaten goat for years, but I reckon a few kids would be just nice.
And the missus loves it, so should be no trouble getting the leave pass.