Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

[stuart]

I've been putting off making bread in my A120 for too long and want to get started with the No Knead bread featured in the eBook on bread. I plan on making pizza for guests tonight and fear I've waited too long to start my bread. Seems I'll need to go to a shorter proof bread.

To you experience bread bakers in the group I ask....I'm curious as to what the period of time you find it takes for your oven to cool to proper bread baking temps and how long does it stay in that range?

Let me clarify before you respond. I understand we all have different ovens, operating in different environments, using different fuel and techniques etc. FYI, I've got an Artigiano 120 which of course has different heating profiles than say a Casa 90 of a 42" Pompeii. I'm not expecting a definitive answer here just polling for your experience.

Back to the bread issue...I realize I could just build a fire timed for when the proofing etc is done for the bread and not worry about syncing with the pizza but it seems like such a waste not to take advantage of the heat already stored in the oven after making pizza.

Thanks,

Stuart

[CanuckJim]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Stuart,

Tough call, as you anticipated. My oven is high mass, so the answers here must be tempered to the mass and insulation of your oven.

For bread, typically I fire to the 900 F range on the floor, then pull the coals and sweep the hearth. If the weather is moderate, it takes about an hour and a half to two hours for the floor to fall to the 550 F range. Sometimes I keep the heat door in place during the moderating phase, sometimes not, depending on weather. My oven will stay in the 500 range for about 2-3 hours, then begin to drop off. At that point, I start baking other breads that don't require as much heat.

It's really a trial an error procedure with each oven. For no knead bread, you want the hearth at between 500 and 550. You might try some tests to see how long it takes to fall to the right temp.

Jim

[Frances]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

I know what you mean, I hate to let good heat go to waste and always try to bake bread after making pizzas.

As a non-experienced-pompei-oven-bread-baker this is how I go about it: I usually make a regular bread dough right after lighting the big fire, while the oven is heating up, but before getting the pizza toppings ready. This gives the dough about three hours to rise - one hour making pizzas, two for the oven to cool down (with the door closed).

But it turns out different every time, depending on outside temps, how long it takes me to make the pizzas, how hungry my family is etc. I often end up with leftover pizza dough as well which I use to make bread roles, only by then they have been rising for quite a long time... But it works out anyway. Maybe not a professional result, but certainly very tasty.

So I'd say, just try it out. Then tell us all how it went

[dmun]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

I want to share an idea I stole off a baking site, where someone baked the no-kneed bread on a baking stone with a 4 quart pyrex bowl as the cover instead of the cast iron dutch oven:



It's hard to use the dutch oven in the brick oven, since there's no shelf to pull out, and you have a hard time forming a boule-shaped loaf when you're dropping it in from above, particularly if your landing doesn't come out much beyond your arch.

You'll note that in the picture the pyrex bowl is propped up by a brick. This, and the oven thermometer, go in about half an hour after you've shoveled out the coals. When the air temperature is around 500f, you lift up the bowl with a hook type tool, and slide in your loaf off the peel. You use the hook to position the bowl over the loaf and drop it down. About half an hour later you remove the bowl, and continue baking until your loaf is about 200f internal by a probe.

I call this the poor man's cloche. As a bonus, it's a lot stronger than the terra cotta cloche.

[stuart]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

It's hard to use the dutch oven in the brick oven, since there's no shelf to pull out, and you have a hard time forming a boule-shaped loaf when you're dropping it in from above, particularly if your landing doesn't come out much beyond your arch.

Forgive my ignorance but could you explain what you mean by this? I'm lost regarding your references to a shelf, dropping the loaf from above, and how the landing depth plays.

[dmun]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Sorry stuart, I thought you were talking about the NY times/sullivan st. no-knead bread recipe
Which is a high hydration low yeast bread that is cooked in a pre-heated dutch oven to generate steam. That's what the inverted bowl is about. I realize thinking about it that there are lots of no-knead bread recipes other than this one famous one. Sorry.

[stuart]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Certainly no apology is needed. I am actually using the recipe from the eBook James and Jim collaborated on. What I'm wondering is what you mean when you say using a Dutch oven is difficult in a bread oven?

[asudavew]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Sometime I cook bread inside the entry way while heating the oven for pizza.

Small loaves work best.

I also roll out small dough balls, and cook pitas just inside the entry way.

They make great appetizers.

For dipping I take a oven proof dish. (low sides) I pour a generous amount of olive oil ( 1/4 to 3/8's of an inch deep). To the oil I add several coursely chopped cloves of garlic, more is better than less. Then I add a sprig of fresh oregano and a few basil leaves.
I cook this in the entry way as well. After a while it will sizzle and the garlic will start to brown! Then dip in your bread or pitas! Good stuff.

As for post-firing bread baking... I usually leave my coals in that night. I put the door on. And go to bed. The next day my oven is still usually around 450-500f. I cook small loaves of bread at those temps, and when it gets to 400 or so, I can put in he heavier ones.

I hope this helps.


Dave

[stuart]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Thanks Dave for all your feedback today on various topics. Seems like we are a couple of the few on today. Hope things are well in San Angelo. Weather is cool in Dallas, been the low 40's all week, not like the weather prognosticators had predicted.

I'm keeping warm by running my oven! Pizza ala Plasma last night, bread tonight, pizza and bread tomorrow, bread Sunday and pizza Monday! 2007 is going out in wood fired style!

[Acoma]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

I'd be in shorts if it was the 40's. 10-20 here, snow flurries, hot cocoa.

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

Hi Stuart,
I find that the best way to time bread bakes after pizza is to do pizza at lunch, then let the fire burn down and equalize for a few hours. Then I am ready to bank (I have a Pompeii with about 1" of extra mass).

If I have planned way ahead, I will have many loaves of sourdough retarding in the fridge. If not I can make any other one day breads like cibatta or focaccia. I can always stick them in the fridge to retard a little if the hearth is too hot. Sometimes I do fire it just for bread. You can kill yourself trying to use all that heat.

Have fun,
Drake

[Frances]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

You can kill yourself trying to use all that heat.

Ain't that the truth!

[stuart]

Re: Bread after pizza, how soon...(or long)?

I'd be in shorts if it was the 40's. 10-20 here, snow flurries, hot cocoa.

Yeah, pretty sad that a Michigan born guy needs to stand next to his oven to keep warm in 40 weather. Guess 25 years in Texas can thin a man's blood!