Primavera: Add External Gas Heat Source

[tnor10]

Based upon the recent newsletter from Forno for gas heat source; I wanted to see if anyone is considering adding an external gas source to a Primavera oven. I have some thought on how to approach but seeking some collaboration on approach, materials and parts. Look forward to your feedback. Thank you, tnor10

[tnor10]

Has anyone determine a way to add gas heat source for the Primavera; it really needs it to retain heat. I am starting to consider a few options but would appreciate others consideration on this. Not only approach but materials and parts. Thank you in advance.

[david s]

The forum has a longstanding policy, which I presume is still current, of not discussing the use of gas burners due to the potential safety problems with people building and fitting their own setups. The work should only be done by a licensed gas fitter. As your oven is a Fornobravo product you should contact them directly for advice.

[tnor10]

Hello David; while I appreciate and respect others opinions. This is a Forno Bravo forum and no such policy exists especially when Forno Bravo is promoting upgrade gas heat source kits. With all do respect if you don't have interest in this topic please don't respond however this is relative to this thread. So I continue to welcome other members feedback. Thank you kindly...

[Gulf]

Tnor10,

Though hosted by Forno Bravo, this is an independent forum. James Bairey, is the founder of Forno Bravo and the founder of the Forno Bravo forum. James, through many of his posts, related that he was not in favor of gas in residential ovens. Therefore for many years the subject wasn't discussed on the forum. Times have changed. So has the management of Forno Bravo. Forno Bravo are promoting kits to upgrade their Casa2G or Premio2G style pizza ovens purchased after 2010. They are UL listed gas assist kits which should be installed per the manufacturer's instructions and (in most areas) by a licensed gas technician. Forno Bravo, to my knowledge, is not promoting the retro-installation of their kit in any other Forno Bravo models, self built ovens, or any other manufacturer's ovens.

Though, it being an independant forum, I still doubt that Forno Bravo would approve discussions of DYI hacks with off the shelf parts. That being said, there are a number of members who have had gas assists installed in their (brick) ovens. Mexman is one that comes to mind. I believe that his was a gas assist purchased from another vender. Maybe, you could could pm him for some information.

I would like to invite Alex_FB to the discussion to see what Forno Bravo's current thoughts are on discussing the subject on the open forum.

[tnor10]

Gulf: Thank you for your detailed response and courtesy of the detail provided.

[david s]

Hello David; while I appreciate and respect others opinions. This is a Forno Bravo forum and no such policy exists especially when Forno Bravo is promoting upgrade gas heat source kits. With all do respect if you don't have interest in this topic please don't respond however this is relative to this thread. So I continue to welcome other members feedback. Thank you kindly...

Ybor,
I do have interest in this topic and hence this response. Also a fair amount of experience having built and fired a number of gas kilns and also using gas with WFOs. However since the forum moderators requested a number of years ago that members not discuss this topic for aforementioned reasons, I and other members have complied. I have also deleted my posts and photos on the topic.
I think we need some update and clarification from our moderators on the discussion of this topic. In the meantime as I suggested you should address your requests to FB as it is one of their ovens that you own because this forum is primarily designed for home builders. Issues with their products should not be the domain of the forum.
ps if you are having difficulty retaining heat it may be that the oven is either not dry or if cooking pizza you always need to maintain a fire on the side to keep the temp up. It also gives you an oven light. It is far easier to throw on more wood.

[tnor10]

Thank you David S.

[admin]

Based upon the recent newsletter from Forno for gas heat source; I wanted to see if anyone is considering adding an external gas source to a Primavera oven. I have some thought on how to approach but seeking some collaboration on approach, materials and parts. Look forward to your feedback. Thank you, tnor10

We do not recommend adding gas to any oven smaller than our 80 Casa size for outdoor ovens. And none for indoors.

It has to do with CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning. Smaller oven chambers do not convect enough to efficiently burn gas. Any un-burned gas turns to CO (at -51 degrees, propane turns to CO) and as it is undetectable to the nose, you may not be aware you are being poisoned.

Our Casa and Premio based products have an outdoor gas feature that has been UL tested for safe CO levels.

[admin]

Has anyone determine a way to add gas heat source for the Primavera; it really needs it to retain heat. I am starting to consider a few options but would appreciate others consideration on this. Not only approach but materials and parts. Thank you in advance.

If your Primavera oven is not retaining heat, there may be other issues. Wood burns hotter and more efficiently than gas. If you could provide us the year purchased and some photos of the interior / exterior of the oven, we would be happy to look at it. Send them to support@fornobravo.com.

Most often, heat retention comes from a few sources with our oven:

1 - Improperly cured dome that might be compromised with cracks.

2 - Exterior stucco finish allowing water in that acts as an inhibitor to reaching full temp)

3 - Water pooling inside the oven and insulating between floor tiles inhibiting heat.

Tim

[admin]

The forum has a longstanding policy, which I presume is still current, of not discussing the use of gas burners due to the potential safety problems with people building and fitting their own setups. The work should only be done by a licensed gas fitter. As your oven is a Fornobravo product you should contact them directly for advice.

We at Forno Bravo do not encourage home owners to buy off the shelf burner kits and retrofit an oven on their own without consulting their oven manufacturer (whether us or a competitor).

However, with the increased concerns about no-burn zones, market trends and other considerations, we did introduce a gas oven.

When considering gas, there are a few considerations:

Is the oven UL tested for gas so that it is safe? Ovens with gas need enough air to mix properly below the hearth to burn efficiently and enough convection in the oven to maintain a good flame. Some of the safety issues are CO poisoning, CO2 levels and make up air, gas compression resulting in a "bomb" effect, un-regulated pressure, etc. Our ovens are UL tested (home ovens) for outdoor gas on the Casa2g and Premio2g models (manufacture date after 2010) and deemed safe based on these conditions for outdoor installations.

The Primavera is too small and is not UL tested for gas and we do not recommend upgrading that model.

Tim

[admin]

Hello David; while I appreciate and respect others opinions. This is a Forno Bravo forum and no such policy exists especially when Forno Bravo is promoting upgrade gas heat source kits. With all do respect if you don't have interest in this topic please don't respond however this is relative to this thread. So I continue to welcome other members feedback. Thank you kindly...

Forno Bravo's policy is to have an open and industry neutral forum. We prefer our ovens, but don't want to impede others from having a vibrant discussion. Previous posts by Forno Bravo regarding gas from years ago are not as relevant in today's technology, market and updated product lines.

If you have a Forno Bravo oven and want to get answers regarding our specific product recommendations for gas, then email us at support@fornobravo.com. The year, model, indoor / outdoor install and a pic of the install including the base is usually enough for us to assist you.

[admin]

Tnor10,

Though hosted by Forno Bravo, this is an independent forum. James Bairey, is the founder of Forno Bravo and the founder of the Forno Bravo forum. James, through many of his posts, related that he was not in favor of gas in residential ovens. Therefore for many years the subject wasn't discussed on the forum. Times have changed. So has the management of Forno Bravo. Forno Bravo are promoting kits to upgrade their Casa2G or Premio2G style pizza ovens purchased after 2010. They are UL listed gas assist kits which should be installed per the manufacturer's instructions and (in most areas) by a licensed gas technician. Forno Bravo, to my knowledge, is not promoting the retro-installation of their kit in any other Forno Bravo models, self built ovens, or any other manufacturer's ovens.

Though, it being an independant forum, I still doubt that Forno Bravo would approve discussions of DYI hacks with off the shelf parts. That being said, there are a number of members who have had gas assists installed in their (brick) ovens. Mexman is one that comes to mind. I believe that his was a gas assist purchased from another vender. Maybe, you could could pm him for some information.

I would like to invite Alex_FB to the discussion to see what Forno Bravo's current thoughts are on discussing the subject on the open forum.

Gulf,

I have responded to most of the questions regarding gas in this thread and our policies. Your response is accurate, we do caution against non-engineered solutions, particularly for indoor applications. Feel free to refer any Forno Bravo oven owners directly to support@fornobravo.com for us to answer gas product option questions.

Let me know if there is anything else you need, thanks again for volunteering to moderate this active forum.

Best Regards,
Tim Cole
COO
Forno Bravo

[admin]

Ybor,
I do have interest in this topic and hence this response. Also a fair amount of experience having built and fired a number of gas kilns and also using gas with WFOs. However since the forum moderators requested a number of years ago that members not discuss this topic for aforementioned reasons, I and other members have complied. I have also deleted my posts and photos on the topic.
I think we need some update and clarification from our moderators on the discussion of this topic. In the meantime as I suggested you should address your requests to FB as it is one of their ovens that you own because this forum is primarily designed for home builders. Issues with their products should not be the domain of the forum.
ps if you are having difficulty retaining heat it may be that the oven is either not dry or if cooking pizza you always need to maintain a fire on the side to keep the temp up. It also gives you an oven light. It is far easier to throw on more wood.

Ybor,

I would suggest the following approach regarding gas. Discussing the pros / cons of gas and wood (or even charcoal) from a cooking perspective would be fine.

When making recommendations regarding gas, always recommend using a UL tested (or equivalent) burner that has been tested with the specific oven make, model and size it will be used on.

Gas installations must be certified for the specific application. Indoor is more stringent than outdoors, etc.

Always use a certified plumber to hook up any gas appliance.

Refer any Forno Bravo oven owners to support@fornobravo.com.

Thanks again.
Tim

[Gulf]

Thanks Tim admin ,

From your posts (and from now on), we know that safety is the most important factor in considering any discussion on the subject of gas in a WFO. Also, it is great to hear that it is no longer a "totally taboo" subject in residential WFOs on the Forno Bravo forum.