Commercial Bread Ovens

[texassourdough]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Hi Rob!

Oiliness is not a problem. I have read that the preferred bread oven wood in the far east is juniper. I use mountain juniper as my main wood for heating the oven and for pizza. The reason it is preferred is that it burns really bright and hot thus creating a strong driving force to push heat into the refractory. Compared to juniper I consider mesquite slow burning. I personally never use mesquite to heat the oven but when available I do switch to it or oak for pizza when available - but most of the time it is still juniper. (While the oiliness of juniper is not favored by barbecuers, the organics burn at WFO temps and there is no effect other than occasional pops that occasionally land a few ashes on the pizza. Not a problem for me)

I wouldn't worry about multi fuel. Just go with the wood you have!

Good Luck!
Jay

[robfin]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Fortunately we already have a big dome pizza oven in the area and I've been playing around with it. It's in a hotel some friends own. Long story how it got there. An Italian had it built by a guy who used to build in Italy, then he left town. The owners of the hotel don't do a lot of cooking, but we've definitely gotten that oven well past 800 (infrared therm test) with mesquite which burns real hot, and we've put out some nice pizzas and bread.
I hear ya with the fruit woods. We've got a LOT of forested lands around the area and there are a few scrub woods that I think we could rely on.
I am also a big cob oven fan, building my first one a year or so ago. That's another mission I've got because the local Mexicans seem to have forgotten how to build the dome ovens. I see nasty square ones in the backyards of barrio homes, but rarely if ever a dome shape. There is a kindergarten close by and we're thinking of building one there as a school project, having the kids doing the cob stomp, and maybe showing the locals how to build the domes.
Part of me can't believe the domes aren't around though, so that idea needs some more research.
I heard James talk about how Italy switched to the electric box ovens after the war and it took a while for them to realized what they were missing. Maybe the same in Mexico.
Could be we'll be Juan Appleseeding ovens around Mexico.
Thanks,
Rob

[SCChris]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

I use to burn mesquite lump charcoal in a Weber and I'd have that thing glowing cherry red. I loved the chicken that would come out of that BBQ..

I know the mesquite would do what you want and the orchard wood would also work, do you have enough to keep you going over the years? Mabey you can dual fuel and see how it works out.

Chris

[robfin]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

OK. Now we're talking. We get huge bags of mesquite charcoal with chunks as big as bowling balls. When I drive north, that's all I declare. "Yes sir, I've got 4 bags of charcoal!" The border guys just wave me through as a nut now. A 4' tall bag costs about $5. I hauled a good smoker down one year and I've got a chicken rub recipe I guard with voodoo dolls that blew the locals away. I couldn't go commercial with it cause I'd get kneecapped by the local chicken cart folks, but I did also use the smoker to prep meats for a chili contest and won with a unanimous decision as the new guy in town. No beans. Pure chili ala Mary of Agreda (the first Spanish missionary) with javalina and antelope that we just happened to have due to a Montana hunter who'd hauled down some frozen meat.
The local gringos have been having an annual chili contest for decades, although I doubt they know that chili has nothing to do with Mexico. Big fun though, and maybe some of you folks need to know when the next contest is. Not that you have a chance of winning.

Reliable wood sources. I don't have that answer right now, but I will. The Spaniards used the amapa trees for beams for the haciendas to the point that they are protected, or at least as protected as things get in Mexico. Probably too hard a wood for a good heat source. The amapa provided great straight 16' poles which determined the widths of the rooms and hallways.
Interestingly, none of the old buildings had heat/fireplaces because the Spaniards were from Andalusia and didn't need heat there, so all the buildings needed to be retrofitted with fireplaces which were put in room corners, some at cob oven height, and built to throw a lot of heat into those rooms with 16'+ ceilings. Those high ceilinged rooms are semi-cool in the summer and quite crypt-like in the chilly winter mornings.
I've only burned mesquite in the fireplaces and naturally went to it for the times I got at the dome oven. I'm quite sure we can come up with an alder like scrub or some such variety.
Worst case we'll use the stalks from the pot plantations up in the hills.
Gracias,
Rob

[SCChris]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

I'd work with the raw seasoned mesquite or orchard wood, not charcoal. The alder like woods and stalks will be disapointing, not much bang for your bucks. The propane would allow a consistent oven heatup and heat regulation. It would take some variables out of the breadmaking. Texassourdough, Jay, is my newest "goto" for bread making info. He seems to have the in-depth understanding of what's going on with the live dough and baking needs.


Chris

[robfin]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Chris, I wasn't thinking of charcoal for the oven. Just BBQing.
I've got to believe we've got a juniper in those foothills of the Sierra Madres.
That'll be my personal mission, along with the oven building.

I start helping some baker friends build an Overncrafter in Port Hadlock tomorrow. They're just at the base stage, which is great for me. I need to get my feet wet, so to speak.
Plus these guys work for my friend Frank who owns Pane d'Amore in Port Townsend, which puts out the best bread I've ever had in an amazing state of the art production bakery.
It's lining up to be a fun summer.
Rob

[Archena]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Fortunately we already have a big dome pizza oven in the area and I've been playing around with it. It's in a hotel some friends own. Long story how it got there. An Italian had it built by a guy who used to build in Italy, then he left town. The owners of the hotel don't do a lot of cooking, but we've definitely gotten that oven well past 800 (infrared therm test) with mesquite which burns real hot, and we've put out some nice pizzas and bread.
I hear ya with the fruit woods. We've got a LOT of forested lands around the area and there are a few scrub woods that I think we could rely on.
I am also a big cob oven fan, building my first one a year or so ago. That's another mission I've got because the local Mexicans seem to have forgotten how to build the dome ovens. I see nasty square ones in the backyards of barrio homes, but rarely if ever a dome shape. There is a kindergarten close by and we're thinking of building one there as a school project, having the kids doing the cob stomp, and maybe showing the locals how to build the domes.
Part of me can't believe the domes aren't around though, so that idea needs some more research.
I heard James talk about how Italy switched to the electric box ovens after the war and it took a while for them to realized what they were missing. Maybe the same in Mexico.
Could be we'll be Juan Appleseeding ovens around Mexico.
Thanks,
Rob

Awesome!

Kindergarteners and mud - a natural combo! You have got to post pics if you do that!

[SCChris]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Rob,
It looks like you have much of the resources in place. Do you have a local Mexico resource for firebrick and mortar?

And Archena is right if you build the cob oven you have to post pictures.

Chris

[robfin]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

Hi Chris, Sorry about this ridiculously late response. The answer is no, I don't have a source for quality firebrick and mortar in Mexico. Meanwhile I wouldn't know a quality firebrick if it fell on my toe. I do know that the term "quality" is a moving target in Mexico where so many of the people are of a wonderfully high moral quality, but so much of the production isn't geared to our industrial quality standards.

My guess is that I can scare up pretty good quality materials, but distances come into play. We are only 500 miles south of Tucson, so if it came to that.................
That's where I had to go for a good pressure washer last year when I did a big roof job. Even the Home Depot in Obregon only had homeowner versions.

Is there a field test that will tell me if a firebrick is up to snuff?
Thanks,
Rob

[SCChris]

Re: Commercial Bread Ovens

I don't know that I could figure out a test. There have got to be some seasoned, newer, fireplaces in your area where the bricks are not flaking or breaking up. I'd persue these materials and tradesmen to find what you need.

I guess you could gather together a few candidates and build a loose fire ring or oven or some such thing and build a few raging OMG hot fires over a few days, saturate the bricks and don't spare the firewood, then pull it apart and compare the candidates looking for problems.

Chris