81 Inch First Build (and first post)

[windage]

I am building a pizza shop in a new location in my hometown of Vanceburg, KY. My previous shops used double stacked Bakers Pride gas fired, stone hearth ovens, but the gas bill gets crazy!
I have been researching WFOs for a while..joined here in '07 but this is my first post. Joined MHA and will attend the week long outing this April, really looking forward to meeting all the guys I have been seeing in photos doing the builds of bake ovens and heaters.
This oven is built on a sturdy block and concrete pad, the bottom of which is hollow to recieve ashes through a cast iron ash dump. Most of the bricks were locally made and found in piles around home of workers, who took them home free to put around flower beds and such..the arch pillars are 9 x 4.5 x 18. This oven will be 6ft 9 inch inside and 24" tall dome, thick walls and perlite insulation.
Perhaps I should have started out building a smaller one at home, but I need this one first. I intended to have one of the guys from MHA build it, but things just didn't come together and I chose to go it alone...learning alot too!
Hope to be open sometime in April.

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Earlier pics of the hearth slab pour. It projects into the kitchen space through the wall.

Roger





My home-converted wet saw;


Arch pillars;

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Inner arch laid up;




Spreading the perl-crete;


Roger

[shuboyje]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Holly cow. How many pizzas are you planning to cook in that monster? I assume they will be a more traditional pie and not a 90 second naples style? You must be putting one thick floor in to bring that arch into ratio for a 24" dome.

I also love that you are pictured with gun in holster fully exposed, lol.

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Shuboyje,
The design is a morphing together of a fast fire pizza oven with a bread baker...the hearth is 1 layer of brick on flat..2 1/2 inch and an upper layer of soapstone, also 2 1/2...(total 5inch thick hearth) so, not as thick of a hearth as bread oven, but I hope the soapstone which is supposed to be quick to heat will bounce dome heat to pizza crust. Yes, I hope to push out a lot of pizza ! Finished arch height will be 13.5 inches or so....

Exposed gun? Goodness sakes!!, guns are dangerous, aren't they? haha...This is rural KY, we are still sovereign free citizens here. There is truly a "gun behind every blade of grass".

I finished high school in a little town called Northville MI, and visit my sister on Silver Lake in Green Twnsp often. My dad's family is from Roseville, what part of Detroit are you in?

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Admitedly this is a different beast than a home oven...
But from your description it does not sound like you have insulation under the hearth. It that correct?
-----
Answer my own question and ask another...

I now see that you have some perlcrete going in. So bricks going on top of that? It does not look like enough insulation to me...

Drake

[kebwi]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Heh heh. you chamfered your arch just like me. I must have done something right.

Golly, you could sleep in that thing when it's cold. Good luck.

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Admitedly this is a different beast than a home oven...
But from your description it does not sound like you have insulation under the hearth. It that correct?
-----
Answer my own question and ask another...

I now see that you have some perlcrete going in. So bricks going on top of that? It does not look like enough insulation to me...

Drake

Drake, I hope the 3 inches of perlite is enough to keep the big heat off the concrete pad below...otherwise...oopps.

My inspiration for this oven came from a build by a former MHA member / instructor, who has less hearth brick and insulation than mine. I modified the one seen in the video by adding more hearth depth and insulation. I really didn't have an exact pattern to follow, just data and hunch.

YouTube - Building of a wood-burning pizza oven.

Roger

[cannyfradock]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

windage

I have every admiration for you Sir in taking on such a mammoth task.

I wish you all the best in your build.

Terry (C.F)

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

We usually reccomend 4 inches on perlcrete below the floor.

You could consider adding an inch of high tech insulation like forno bravo board on top of the perlcrete...don't know if that would make your arch entry too low...

Don't shoot!
Drake

[shuboyje]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Roger,

I had noticed your oven was gonna be similar to that one...guess that was because it was on purpose, lol. Are you gonna pour a reinforced abutment like he did? Are you gonna do the "squirrel tail" vent? I've noticed the squirrel tail vents and soap stone hearth in most of Peter Moore's ovens pictured online, curious to hear how it all turns out.

I'm in the northeast suburbs, up by New Baltimore...but I work in the union building trades so know the whole area well as I see all corners often. I spent the last month working on a school in Roseville...

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Roger,

I had noticed your oven was gonna be similar to that one...guess that was because it was on purpose, lol. Are you gonna pour a reinforced abutment like he did? Are you gonna do the "squirrel tail" vent? I've noticed the squirrel tail vents and soap stone hearth in most of Peter Moore's ovens pictured online, curious to hear how it all turns out.

I'm in the northeast suburbs, up by New Baltimore...but I work in the union building trades so know the whole area well as I see all corners often. I spent the last month working on a school in Roseville...

Yes, I will "pour" the surround using rebar and perlcrete...it works kinda wierd, more like pushing it in..
The vent?...I may build it from bricks, but dont like the cast "lids" Peter uses...thinking of going with flu liners laying on their side and mortared in place. I am also thinking I will build the covering from steel frame and dur-rock and fill with loose perlite.
I really need to source the best price on some K thermocouples to bury in the dome and hearth so I can get temps...any sources (aside from OvenCrafters?)
Roger

[Wiley]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Wow!
I'm impressed with the size of your undertaking. As long as you have vast supplies of inexpensive wood to burn, insulation is probably not necessary. I mean once upon a time stone castles were heated with open fireplaces, it rquired whole forests but it was done.

For most of us on Forno Bravo "insulate insulate insulate" is sort of our mantra. We try to capture and retain as many BTUs as practical from the wood we burn. The price of wood and the quanity you burn will (I expect) be reflected in the bottom line. But if you have the wood and if it "pencils out" to be more economical in the long haul to burn more wood rather than insulate, then go for it!

I'm guessing you are going to have a poured support structure outside of the lower vertical section of the wall to contain the fairly sizeable outward thrust of such a wide low dome. Something like the guy in the video did, or do you have another plan?

Please keep us posted as you progress.
Bests,
Wiley

[windage]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Wiley,

I agree with the insulate theme, and plans include many bags of perlite...(there are already 15-4cufts on site)...there are 4 bags alone in the hearth floor. Not only to save on fuel, but to retain heat and allow the masonry to do it's thing properly.

As far as wood is concerned, we can buy "seasoned" hardwoods; white and red oaks, hickory, beech and hard maple for $30 to $50 a pickup truck load. We are in the middle of the Appalachian hardwoods and very rural, so there are always felled tree tops to get and thirsty guys with chainsaws to get it.

I am playing with the idea of creating a "swirl" trench in the roof of the dome as it joins the arch, coupled with a directional opening in lower portion of the outer arch to direct the air in a circular motion. This will be an effort to use the combustion air to direct convection currents evenly around the dome. Haven't read or seen anything about this idea, just seems right.

This oven will function 11AM to 12 midnight as a pizza oven, only baking hearth breads and cinammon rolls in the early AM as temps are lower with a door on. I know this is asking alot to "dual purpose" this oven...but what if it could be done?

I have to say that you are a great bunch on here ! After only posting yesterday, I am getting all kinds of help and welcome. I have been reading the forum for several years, planning this oven and researching, but haven't posted until I had something to show. Thanks all.
Roger

[shuboyje]

Re: 81 Inch First Build (and first post)

Roger,

I've thought about similar vent designs, almost creating a secondary heat exchanger like a 90+% furnace. I do have some feedback on it though. In naples they built the ovens with a vent going back over the oven to the middle then up. On another forum a member with insight and knowledge of these ovens claims it does little if anything to heat the dome, and that in fact the goal is to transfer heat the other way, from the dome into the flue to improve draw. The next concern is if it does work. The heat exchange would have to be balanced so you are not cooling the flue gases to a point that they are cooler then the dome and start stealing heat on the way up the stack. Finally when cooling gases you have to think about condensate. It shouldn't be an issue due to the temperatures involved but as you cool air you lessen it's ability to hold water.

Now what would be cool is to use the heat in the flue gases for heat or to assist a hot water heater. A section of single wall metal stack with fins on it and a fan blowing over it could produce a nice amount of heat IMHO...I've thought about trying that on my oven.