Sample arch design photos

[maver]

Dalucca, that's my plan.

[CanuckJim]

Arch opening

Dalucca,


I've done this quite a few times, and here's the easiest method. Lay lintel iron across your opening in the stand to give you a square or retangular shape. When you go to lay your brick, go up the sides of the opening to the approx height you want, but make sure the arch will completely hide the iron when you're finished. Don't forget to add brick ties when you build your stand. Cut an angle on the last brick on either side on which to begin your soldier course. On a piece of cardboard, dry lay the bricks for the arch shape you want. When you're satisfied, draw said shape on the cardboard, cut out, then cut two pieces of 3/4" ply to the shame shape (screw them together before cutting to ensure accuracy). Add spacer blocks between the pieces to bring you out to the width of the bricks. Support this form in position with 2x4s, using cedar shim shingles under the feet (makes removal later easier). Lay bricks for arch, wait a day, carefully remove form. Voila.

Jim

[dalucca2003]

Dalucca,


I've done this quite a few times, and here's the easiest method. Lay lintel iron across your opening in the stand to give you a square or retangular shape. When you go to lay your brick, go up the sides of the opening to the approx height you want, but make sure the arch will completely hide the iron when you're finished. Don't forget to add brick ties when you build your stand. Cut an angle on the last brick on either side on which to begin your soldier course. On a piece of cardboard, dry lay the bricks for the arch shape you want. When you're satisfied, draw said shape on the cardboard, cut out, then cut two pieces of 3/4" ply to the shame shape (screw them together before cutting to ensure accuracy). Add spacer blocks between the pieces to bring you out to the width of the bricks. Support this form in position with 2x4s, using cedar shim shingles under the feet (makes removal later easier). Lay bricks for arch, wait a day, carefully remove form. Voila.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I have a couple of questions. First, I was going with the plans from Forno Bravo which call for angle iron. Is this okay or do I need the Lintel iron which I have not heard of?

And also, not sure about the brick ties and where to put them. Appreciate any assistance you can provide.

[maver]

Brick ties - this is one vendor,

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/BT.html

I think these can be applied either during block stand construction or with solid wall anchors after (which I'll end up doing). BTW, I called a local hardware store that carries Simpson products and had them order these, could not find anyone around with these in stock, they are about $1.50 a piece. I just need to find a friend with a rotary hammer - a conventional masonry bit on my regular drill did ok in my poured concrete hearth but has no power vs the concrete block.

[dalucca2003]

Dalucca,


I've done this quite a few times, and here's the easiest method. Lay lintel iron across your opening in the stand to give you a square or retangular shape. When you go to lay your brick, go up the sides of the opening to the approx height you want, but make sure the arch will completely hide the iron when you're finished. Don't forget to add brick ties when you build your stand. Cut an angle on the last brick on either side on which to begin your soldier course. On a piece of cardboard, dry lay the bricks for the arch shape you want. When you're satisfied, draw said shape on the cardboard, cut out, then cut two pieces of 3/4" ply to the shame shape (screw them together before cutting to ensure accuracy). Add spacer blocks between the pieces to bring you out to the width of the bricks. Support this form in position with 2x4s, using cedar shim shingles under the feet (makes removal later easier). Lay bricks for arch, wait a day, carefully remove form. Voila.

Jim

Jim,

Not being a mason at all I have a question, possibly a dumb one at that. If not mistaken, the bricks do not adhere to the iron...correct. It sounds like a form is built and is placed between the lintel and the bricks....again correct. I have attached a diagram from my uncle from Italy and that is the look I am going for.

Also, is it necessary to add the brick ties ahead of time or can they be added later. If they need to be added ahead of time, where are they placed and how are they attached. Sorry for all the questions and hope they make sense. I appreciate any assistance you can provide as I am complete with the blaock stand except for the opening.

[maver]

rotary hammer?

I'm no mason, so Jim may have better advice on this, but I think it's much easier to install brick ties in between your concrete blocks (this is supposed to be in a mortarted joint to "grab" the tie, not a dry joint as most pompeii oven stands are made with). The link I posted earlier for the simpson brand birck ties does show holes on one side to allow affixing the brick ties later as another option, however it is a pain to drill through concrete block with a masonry bit in a conventional drill. I believe a rotary hammer is the tool for this job that would make it much easier, I'm looking into my options for this because I did not foresee this issue with my block stand. Solid wall anchors should allow a firm hold if you do go the route I am going with this. You are already in this boat on the sides of your block stand if you intend to cover these with brick as well, so you may just deal with it later unless you can find brick ties readily.

[dalucca2003]

I'm no mason, so Jim may have better advice on this, but I think it's much easier to install brick ties in between your concrete blocks (this is supposed to be in a mortarted joint to "grab" the tie, not a dry joint as most pompeii oven stands are made with). The link I posted earlier for the simpson brand birck ties does show holes on one side to allow affixing the brick ties later as another option, however it is a pain to drill through concrete block with a masonry bit in a conventional drill. I believe a rotary hammer is the tool for this job that would make it much easier, I'm looking into my options for this because I did not foresee this issue with my block stand. Solid wall anchors should allow a firm hold if you do go the route I am going with this. You are already in this boat on the sides of your block stand if you intend to cover these with brick as well, so you may just deal with it later unless you can find brick ties readily.

Maver,

The place I have been dealing with for all my masonry supplies does have brick ties. The concern I have then is I did do dry joint versus mortaring. I still can mortar them in, just not sure where, how many, and what is the proper way to install them. As always, thanks for the great feedback.

[CanuckJim]

Ties and Such

Maver, Dalucca,

Couple of answeres here. First off, apologies, lintel iron is a local variant for angle iron. Same thing. You don't need to attach the block or brick to the angle iron, just mortar between the blocks or bricks in the normal way, and lay them on the iron; with the weight, plenty strong.

The best way to use brick ties is to mortar them into horizontal block joints. Barring that, the ones you can get at Home Depot have holes drilled into them for nailing to the wooden framework of houses to be brick veneered. You can drill holes for them and use tapcons on block, but Maver's correct, you will need a hammer drill for this. You don't really need a lot of brick ties, unless you live in an earthquake zone. I'd say about every foot or so along a horizontal mortar joint. For a soldier in an arch, I'd add about four in the vertical joints. This particular use is a bit of overkill, but, hey, you'll only do it once. Point is, you want your arch to stay where you put it, and the opening will get a lot of use: ash pails, wood, etc., so it might get knocked about a bit.

Hope I've covered the bases. Let me know if I forgot who's on second.

Jim

[dalucca2003]

Maver, Dalucca,

Couple of answeres here. First off, apologies, lintel iron is a local variant for angle iron. Same thing. You don't need to attach the block or brick to the angle iron, just mortar between the blocks or bricks in the normal way, and lay them on the iron; with the weight, plenty strong.

The best way to use brick ties is to mortar them into horizontal block joints. Barring that, the ones you can get at Home Depot have holes drilled into them for nailing to the wooden framework of houses to be brick veneered. You can drill holes for them and use tapcons on block, but Maver's correct, you will need a hammer drill for this. You don't really need a lot of brick ties, unless you live in an earthquake zone. I'd say about every foot or so along a horizontal mortar joint. For a soldier in an arch, I'd add about four in the vertical joints. This particular use is a bit of overkill, but, hey, you'll only do it once. Point is, you want your arch to stay where you put it, and the opening will get a lot of use: ash pails, wood, etc., so it might get knocked about a bit.

Hope I've covered the bases. Let me know if I forgot who's on second.

Jim

Jim,

Everything sounds good except I have assembled the oven utilizing the dry block method. If I mortar in the ties it may make the blocks then uneven. Sounds like I may need to do what Maver is doing and drill and use tapcons. One question I do have is it okay to mortar to the iron? With expansion and contraction, will that not crack the mortar? Let me know your thoughts as I am just waiting to finish the entry and proceed to the hearth. Thanks.

[CanuckJim]

Mortar

Dalucca,

There's no need to lay your brick in a bed of mortar on the angle iron, but you can if you want, particularly if you need to level them with adjoining brick. However, there is a risk of cracking with this approach, and the mortar really won't adhere to the iron in any structural way.

Jim

[CAM]

ties in a dry stack

Dalucca:
Could you notch the blocks for the ties, place them in the notches and then fill the blocks? If I understand your issue you'll be filling the blocks at that location anyway. If you're placing brick in the opening of the stand, aren't the end blocks filled? Or did I misunderstand the problem? Just a thought. Chris

P.S. Should be able to retrofit already stacked blocks before you pour too.

[dalucca2003]

Dalucca:
Could you notch the blocks for the ties, place them in the notches and then fill the blocks? If I understand your issue you'll be filling the blocks at that location anyway. If you're placing brick in the opening of the stand, aren't the end blocks filled? Or did I misunderstand the problem? Just a thought. Chris

P.S. Should be able to retrofit already stacked blocks before you pour too.

I have already filled the blocks so it looks like I am in Maver's situation where I will be having to drill the brick ties in. My only concern was with the status of my stand, would I be able to add a brick arch once I am done. Sounds like I should be able to with not too many issues.

[maver]

drilled my holes

My father in law is in construction and happens to own a cordless rotary hammer. We had them over for pizza and he brought the tool. It took maybe 4 minutes to drill about 20 2" deep holes around the perimeter of my oven stand. You just need the right tool. Considering how slow it is to use a conventional drill I suggest you rent a rotary hammer if you do not have access to borrow one.

[dalucca2003]

Thanks for the input Maver.....I have been looking for an excuse to purchase a rotary hammer drill and this just my be it. I should be finishing the stand this weekend and framing up for the hearth additionally. Send pictures once you finish the brick arch!

[janprimus]

tools

You always need the right tool for the job! You dn tneed to get the pricey one to do that sort of thing, I got an 80 dollar Makita that works wonderfully.
Chad