Fireclay in Japan

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hello,

I just joined this forum and decided to post here since I live in Gunma. my son and I! along with the help of a bunch of other people have got a Pompeii 42 inch oven we'll along to completion. We are curing it now and will be testing baking bread and pizza this coming weekend.
One of the people who helped is a potter I Kiryu, who suggested a place in Kumagaya just across the river from Ota. I got 30 kilo bags of fire clay for 400 yen.
Some background about me: a retired university prof who has been in Japan for more than 40 years. My main hobby is making furniture, particularly reproductions of early American country furniture. My son wants to bake bread and make pizzas, I want to roast turkey for Christmas.

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hello,

I just joined this forum and decided to post here since I live in Gunma. my son and I! along with the help of a bunch of other people have got a Pompeii 42 inch oven we'll along to completion. We are curing it now and will be testing baking bread and pizza this coming weekend.
One of the people who helped is a potter I Kiryu, who suggested a place in Kumagaya just across the river from Ota. I got 30 kilo bags of fire clay for 400 yen.
Some background about me: a retired university prof who has been in Japan for more than 40 years. My main hobby is making furniture, particularly reproductions of early American country furniture. My son wants to bake bread and make pizzas, I want to roast turkey for Christmas.

Hello and welcome on board "khpizzaovenguy"!

Good to hear another person from the Midwest is living and enjoying making a pizza oven here. I'm not so far away from you if traveling by mountain roads.

Our oven is sitting on casters in the garage right now while I work on a permanent enclosure outdoors.

You are pretty close to Gunma Costco, so a turkey is just a jaunt away by car.

Hope to hear more about your baking and roasting experience.

So far, we have been very happy with the performance of our cast oven.

Gary

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Thanks for the pleasant reply. I will be posting more of our experiences as we continue.
Where are you in Tochigi? I am located in Kurohone-cho, Kiryu, about five kilometers from Mizunuma station on the Wararase Valley Railroad line.

Call me Dann.

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Thanks for the pleasant reply. I will be posting more of our experiences as we continue.
Where are you in Tochigi? I am located in Kurohone-cho, Kiryu, about five kilometers from Mizunuma station on the Wararase Valley Railroad line.

Call me Dann.

Hello Dann,

My address is: Shionomuro-machi, Nikko-city. Nikko was consolidated with surrounding communities a few years ago. Before the area I live was called Imaichi. I live in a rural setting that was subdivided maybe 30 years ago into smaller parcels. Many people from Saitama and Tokyo purchased land and built vacation homes in the same area. My area has maybe 5% permanent residents and the rest part-timers.

There are several golf courses near me, the closest being less than 1 km away from my home. Unfortunately, I do not golf! That's OK, a lot of people do enjoy the sport!

You are only a hop, skip, and a jump away via the road through Ashio. We were at Costco right before Thanksgiving to pick up a frozen butterball along with a couple of other items. Going by highway through Utsunomiya takes about 1 hour to get there.

Really glad to hear you are around. I know only a few Americans and it is nice to hear of another. Keep in touch any way that you can.

If you have any photos of your oven build, I am sure a lot of people would enjoy looking at them.

Gary

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Google maps says the distance from my home to Mizunuma station is 74km if you take the route, 62-119-120-122 (Shionomuromachi to Mizunuma station), so very close! When living in the USA, we would regularly drive to Duluth for groceries at Cub --that trip was 60 miles each way. The Japanese think 100km is a long distance but really not.

What are the mountain roads like this time of year?

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

HI Gary,

We live just off 62, about four kilos from route 122. when we go to Nikko, we usually go straight up 122. It is about 50 km. I guess I don't know the road from there to Shionomuromachi.
Tonight we are getting g snowy I expect you are fretting more the here.

Dann

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hi Dann,

Once you get to Nikko-city proper (the old town), you would follow 119 toward Utsunomiya. When you get to the signal that (turning right would lead to Osawa Interchange Toll gate,) you would turn left instead. That road branches to either of two Pete Dye golf courses, you would follow the road going to Suginosato Golf Course. I live in the area that was subdivided the same time the golf course was constructed.

All we are having right now is rain, it is supposed to turn to snow -- but I think it is a little early for my location. Nikko itself (old town) and Chuzenjiko will probably have measurable amounts. Nantai-san and Shiranisan have had snow for a couple of weeks already.

Maybe, this year might need to put the studless tires on. Haven't done that for the last two years.

So, your oven is all brick? Have you insulated any of it yet? Or prepared anything inside?

Is your oven in or out of doors?

(1896-21 is the lot number, if you do a Mapion search)

Take care

Gary

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hi Gary,

Weather is still unsettled. I moved to my other computer because I make fewer typing mistakes than on the Ipad.

Our oven: Just now, it is un-insulated. We want to use it for a party on Monday. After the weather warms up, we are going to add about 15-20 cm of vermiculite concrete and then a cosmetic cover of concrete.

One of my friends has a pile of leftover field-stone which we can use for the base. The top will be (hopefully) white.

The dome is firebrick and fire-clay. We used the fire-clay to set the bricks in place, then slapped on another 3-5 cm of clay on the outside. The clay is mixed 1-1 with river sand. Altogether, we have about a ton of material in the dome and hearth. All that sits on a base made of concrete blocks holding a slab floor of reinforced concrete and a layer of vermiculite concrete under the hearth. The whole thing resides on a concrete slab. We dug about 60 cm into the ground, put in a layer of stone covered with gravel. That was compacted and then about 20 cm of concrete poured on top of it.

The oven is under a roof. Fortunately, the roof is all recycled materials (except for nails and other fasteners). It's great to have friends who are interested in the progress of the oven.

We are just getting ready to go to Costco for some last minute goodies for the party. I got the turkeys there a couple of weeks ago. They are in the freezer now, and will begin their defrost cycle this afternoon after we get back home.

Dann

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

It sounds like you have been following the recommendations of forno bravo for your build. I do not know the time required to cure the oven.. don't even know if that is the proper name when working with brick. The firebrick need no curing on their own because they are already fired.

Did you follow recommendations for the different opening heights and chimney?

I cast my oven sections from refractory cement and my supporting slab is similar to yours. This work was early last spring. The longest work involved the application of pericrete and the dry out period for that. There are some hairline cracks that developed in my casting but that was the limit--hairline.
However, there are several larger cracks in the pericrete layer and the initial layer plaster coat. That is as far as I am.

We have fired in many times this summer and into the fall and it retains the heat satisfactorily. The permanent enclosure for the oven and an attached woodshed will totally enclose the present oven. The current plan is to elevate the oven so the landing is at elbow height (standing) at about 1150mm. It will be supported by laminated timbers in 3 locations that extend into the walls on each side. The entire area beneath the oven can be open for any use.

The front will be walled off and the final finish probably be Oya stone and have a stainless hood directly above to vent smoke that escapes on initial firing. The rest of the enclosure will probably be lined with Hinoke paneling and the floor finished with something easy to clean--maybe a large ceramic tile??? Don't really know right now.

Before closing it off entirely, I'll apply a wire mesh and another plaster layer to seal things up better. Once in place, the entire void around the oven will be filled with loose-fill perlite or vermiculite.

The entire idea is to have an all-season outside (separate from my house) oven, easy to use, easy to clean. I also recycle many things. My wife keeps telling me its junk....I keep telling her I always see a different life for discarded materials--other people do not have enough imagination--lucky for me!

The rain has been on and off all day. In the last hour it really started coming down hard! I'm sure the higher elevations are getting it in snow. Had definite plans on putting the studdless tires on but I got called away twice to work on some estimates.

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Dann,

There is something that I though might interest you.

I thought about insulation options for quite a while, but settled on pericrete. Since then, I found a source for ceramic fiber blanket insulation--sold by the meter. The place is called "FireWorks" and is on old 119 going toward Utsunomiya right after you pass the junction of 77 to 119 (Funyu intersection).. The telephone number for the place is 028-665-9750. The stuff they have is 25mm thick. I purchased some from them for putting inside my oven door.

They stock it because sometimes them must install a chimney nearer to combustibles than the recommended clearance, then they wrap the ceramic fiber around --even on a double-wall chimney (for extra protection).

Gary

At least something to think about ..

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Back on my iPads Too cold in the computer room. Thanks for the tip on insulation. My son was talking about it. He'll probably give the shop a call.

Tomorrow we will take the oven up to about 800 F, then clear the fire and close the door and damper. We will check the temp each half hour to get an idea of how long the heat stays in as prep for bread baking on Sunday and more on Monday.

Dann

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Back on my iPads Too cold in the computer room. Thanks for the tip on insulation. My son was talking about it. He'll probably give the shop a call.

Tomorrow we will take the oven up to about 800 F, then clear the fire and close the door and damper. We will check the temp each half hour to get an idea of how long the heat stays in as prep for bread baking on Sunday and more on Monday.

Dann

I had my fill of cold rooms living in Northern Minnesota (Iron Range) and until a few years ago in Japanese traditional constructed homes.

When we built our own home, I installed hot water floor heating everywhere.. even in the garage (my storage and workspace). My wife and I did all the work for the entire house, except for installing the unit bath. Actually this is the second time we did this; once here and once in the USA in 1975.

Now, I can walk anywhere barefoot without feeling drafts or any indication of cold-- year around. A lot of insulation is important as well.

If you have any photos of your oven, I'd like to see what you have done. You mention door and (damper).. You installed a damper in your chimney?

Maybe that is something I should be doing when setting up the oven in it's new location. It would help retain heat in the space where the oven will be installed.

I get a feeling that your oven will be used for more than personal use. Do you have some type of restaurant or business venture (Bakery etc)? Or planning one in the near future?

[khpizzaovenguy]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Gary

If you have a Facebook account, look for 'Daniel Gossman). I'm on Facebook.com In my photos and albums I have several sets of photos of the oven.

Today, my son felt we needed insulation so we got some sandbags, filled them with vermiculite and stacked them around the dome. We tied everything down with some chicken wire. After firing for an hour, and then stopping feeding fuel, I took a photo. It is up on my Facebook.

Dann

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Just reactivated my facebook account, but the only photos were of base preparation up to the point that the pericrete layer was installed. Nothing on the construction of the oven dome, transition, chimney or anything else. I probably do not know how to navigate around Facebook--maybe that is the problem.

Insulation will be an issue with holding enough heat to do bread--you mentioned bread a couple of days--Sunday and Monday. It would be interesting to see how long your oven w/o insulation maintains a temperature between 220 and 260C for baking.

I do not know if bread can be prepared with an open flame or not...maybe if in a Dutch oven...but that is way out of my experience range so I'm talking out of the wrong end of my anatomy.

Hope everything works out...several Turkey and several batches of bread! Makes me want to get my oven at least moved outside before years' end.

[mikku]

Re: Fireclay in Japan

Gary

If you have a Facebook account, look for 'Daniel Gossman). I'm on Facebook.com In my photos and albums I have several sets of photos of the oven.

Today, my son felt we needed insulation so we got some sandbags, filled them with vermiculite and stacked them around the dome. We tied everything down with some chicken wire. After firing for an hour, and then stopping feeding fuel, I took a photo. It is up on my Facebook.

Dann

I don't know how hot you can get your oven, but during the initial firing the dome is hotter than the spontaneous combustion temperature for wood. Un-insulated, maybe the outside is hot enough to start the sandbags a burning or at least smoking or melting. Only sandbags I've bought here are woven poly in either the UV tolerant or cheapy ones. Interesting to hear how the preparations and bread making is going. I still see nothing more than a vermiculite base on facebook.