New Zealand pizza oven materials HELP and database

[jes2xu]

Hi all,

Every time I start a DIY project I run into the same problem. You can't find a dam thing in NZ, and when you can get ready to re finance your house!

Availability and price is not the only problem, more often than not things have a different name here. More often than not you end up looking for something that actually doesn't exist here.

I thought I would start a thread for those ( I assume few) kiwis. Hopefully we can help each other out and get a list of where we can find stuff for a decent price!

[jes2xu]

So here is what I have after a few days of many many phone calls. Please give me any input, and let me know if I am doing it wrong or am confused!!!

Fire Brick:
New . . . . just no! around $7- $8 each
Second hand (trademe) $1.5 - $4 each

Portland Cement:
40kg $12 - $15 from the big outlets (mitre10, bunnings etc)
often called "GM" cement instead.

Random stainless steel needles:
$25ish a KG + postage from crow or shingwa refractory
"only sold in 10kg bulk" But some good guys there that may break it up for you.

Hydrated lime:
25kg $23 - $25 from farming suppliers RD1, farmlands etc
Make sure its actually hydrated lime! NOT ground limestone. Also called slaked lime. Check that it is Calcium hydroxide!

Fire Clay:
20KG $60 - $80 WHAT THE?? from CCG through pacemakers or pottery suppliers
Am I missing something here? How is this so expensive? Is it the same stuff? I have seen people saying "get the lower grade stuff" But thats all I can find here

Calcium aluminate cement:
up to $80 a bag through Crow or shingawa refractories or CCG
Right now some one has brought a container of the stuff into NZ and its not selling. Grab it on trademe for $19 a bag!!! (+ shipping from aukland)

Perlite
Looks like we can get it at garden suppliers not too sure of cost yet though

Red brick:
the good old solid ones are prolific on trademe

Cinder/breeze block:
The same as fire brick . . . $$$$$$$

[cobblerdave]

Gday
Yes even in aust things were hard to find.
Pearlite, yes best to try the argrcultural places. Not bunnings as they sell 0nly 10 ltre bags expensive when you need 300 ltres. Also try hydroponics suppliers the local one from me was under $40 per 100 ltr.
Hydrated lime. Be careful of agricultural supplies and garden places. Ag lime is not hydrated. Hydrated lime is a bricklaying product so try building suppliers could becalled brickies lime.
Same with powdered clay. You don't need fireclay due to the lower temps of our ovens. You do need the workability that the clay supplies. It could be called brickies clay and Come in powdered form. Yet again you could find that you can buy bulk "brickies sand" or " bricklayers loam" are two terms. Basically the sand with a clay content meant for bricklayers.
Hope something here might help
Regards dave

[david s]

Hi all,



I thought I would start a thread for those ( I assume few) kiwis. Hopefully we can help each other out and get a list of where we can find stuff for a decent price!

You might be better posting on the "Regional forums- other locations". Being on a volcanic island I'm sure you should have good supplies of pumice for a cheap, if not free (help yourself) price. If you crush it a bit so the max grain size is around 6mm you could use it as a substitute for perlite or vermiculite.

[cobblerdave]

Gday Davids
Yes they don't call them the " shaky islands" for no reason! Volcanic insulation. And possibly free?
Regards dave

[jes2xu]

Cheers team!

Will double check the lime. The guy knew nothing on the phone, but from what I could tell it was actually hydrated lime. Will check the chemical break down on the bag before buying!

Yep I like the pumice idea, will have to rack my brain for a local beach thats full of it!

If I used the brickies clay in the home-brew recipe would I sub the fire clay and sand according to the make up of the brickies clay?

And what do you think team, should I move the thread?

[david s]

No, use the bricklayers clay as a substitute for "fire clay", sand portion better to use silica sand if you can find it as it has sharper facets. This should provide slightly better grip than rounded forms and therefore greater strength in the final mortar. If you can find a bricklayers sand that already contains some clay, you will have no idea how much it contains and anyway it won't be anywhere near enough. Better to stck to the formula with measured amounts by volume as in recipe.

Re moving the thread, yes you could try, but might be easier to start a new one in that location. You might even get the mods to get a special NZ title there.

[jes2xu]

Oh also, does that still apply to the clay when making a home brew CASTABLE? sorry should have mentioned that!

[david s]

Oh also, does that still apply to the clay when making a home brew CASTABLE? sorry should have mentioned that!

Yes, should do. Reason being that the temperature fired to in a WFO is way too low for any fluxing to occur. It's different if you were building a kiln. Any clay should be ok, cheaper the better.
Please, if anyone disagrees with this reasoning, chime in.

[jes2xu]

Ah yeah ok I hear you. Thanks David!!

[Lewbro]

Hi jes2xu and other kiwis on here, I'm in the middle of a WFO build up in Whangarei and have so far found that yes, it is nowhere near as cheap to pick up materials as it is in the US (work takes me there often and I like to browse Home Depot etc!) Trademe is the best market place, so far I've picked up various firebrick sizes in good quantities and qualities using the 'saved search' feature. I keep an eye on northland and Auckland listings. Cement through Bunnings at around $9 a bag, sometimes down to $7 on my trade discount. Builders mix through local quarry, 1/2 a metre did my base and another 1/2 did my hearth with about 1/4 left for future projects. $40 for 1/2 a metre, about 10 bags of cement did both jobs. I decided to mortar my blocks in, $9 a bag at Bunnings and about 3 bags needed for the job. Blocks.... Make sure you shop around. I needed 50 and tried placemakers where they were about $4.50 each (eye watering) but right next door at itm they were $2.70 each. Still expensive but it pays to shop/ring around. I used the standard 200x100x100 size. I used fence pailings from Bunnings for form work. 150mm wide. Got about 6 of them. Dirt cheap at $2.30 a 1.8m length and did the job nicely. H3.2 too so can get wet and be used again. I scabbed some 90x45 off a builder mate for structural stuff, if you know a builder ask them as there is always packaging timber/off cuts which inevitably end up in the skip. Perlite off trademe, $41 for a 100l bag from a company called Inpro or www.perlite.co.nz Pick up free or $25 shipped NI, $35 SI. Nice people to deal with. I'm still trying to source my fire clay. I have large clay deposits at home but not sure if I can be bothered processing it to a fine powder. As you said CCG have it, so do thermal ceramics. Hope this helps, I'm still learning as I go. Lewis

[wotavidone]

So here is what I have after a few days of many many phone calls. Please give me any input, and let me know if I am doing it wrong or am confused!!!

Fire Brick:
New . . . . just no! around $7- $8 each
Second hand (trademe) $1.5 - $4 each

Portland Cement:
40kg $12 - $15 from the big outlets (mitre10, bunnings etc)
often called "GM" cement instead.

Random stainless steel needles:
$25ish a KG + postage from crow or shingwa refractory
"only sold in 10kg bulk" But some good guys there that may break it up for you.

Hydrated lime:
25kg $23 - $25 from farming suppliers RD1, farmlands etc
Make sure its actually hydrated lime! NOT ground limestone. Also called slaked lime. Check that it is Calcium hydroxide!

Fire Clay:
20KG $60 - $80 WHAT THE?? from CCG through pacemakers or pottery suppliers
Am I missing something here? How is this so expensive? Is it the same stuff? I have seen people saying "get the lower grade stuff" But thats all I can find here

Calcium aluminate cement:
up to $80 a bag through Crow or shingawa refractories or CCG
Right now some one has brought a container of the stuff into NZ and its not selling. Grab it on trademe for $19 a bag!!! (+ shipping from aukland)

Perlite
Looks like we can get it at garden suppliers not too sure of cost yet though

Red brick:
the good old solid ones are prolific on trademe

Cinder/breeze block:
The same as fire brick . . . $$$$$$$

My thoughts:
If you can get the calcium aluminate cement for $19 NZ per bag, just grab it, then you won't need the lime. (It has been reported on the forum that the lime makes CAC go off really quickly.)
Might even be able to leave out the fireclay (do a bit of research and draw your own conclusions, some say you need it, the instructions on the bag might say otherwise.)
Three months ago I walked along the beach at Taupo, picked up a rock, threw it in and watched it float back to shore on the wavelets. If I lived on God's best islands (a strong possibility when I retire) I'd be investigating sources of pumice for my insulation.

[jes2xu]

My thoughts:
If you can get the calcium aluminate cement for $19 NZ per bag, just grab it, then you won't need the lime. (It has been reported on the forum that the lime makes CAC go off really quickly.)
Might even be able to leave out the fireclay (do a bit of research and draw your own conclusions, some say you need it, the instructions on the bag might say otherwise.)
Three months ago I walked along the beach at Taupo, picked up a rock, threw it in and watched it float back to shore on the wavelets. If I lived on God's best islands (a strong possibility when I retire) I'd be investigating sources of pumice for my insulation.

Dude Im sorry I just saw this!!!

Yeah I am still weighing this up. The problem being I also need to pay for shipping etc. So cost goes way up. I have stalled out a bit on the project right now, I guess I will deal with this when I get past the hearth.

Thoughts on salt content in pumice? think that will be a problem? I have it close to me, but only from the beach. Perhaps I can organise a trip to a certain lake

[jes2xu]

So turns out you can get hydrated lime from farming suppliers.

Websters hydrated lime. Used for shed/poltry floors as a antibacterial footing.
$25 for 25 kg. Not too bad

[Lewbro]

Horticentre in Whangarei do hydrated lime, $19 for a 25kg bag. It's quite different to the garden lime from mitre 10 etc, almost like talcum powder.