New project-existing slab question

[texman]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Working on the roof for the kitchen area, so no oven work for a while. I am meeting a roofer to hopefully get some ideas. I have a roof mess as you can see from photos. My plan is to support the roof area with the 4x4 and sheath them later with cedar for appearance. The bottom 3 feet of the column would be bricked for appearance and stability. Is there a problem with the wood supports adjacent to the outside of the oven area? I dont think that is a problem. This roof thing is a pain. Got the HF saw and want to work on that stuff, oh well. It will be nice to be dry if i can figure out the roof.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Texman,

Excellent looking drawings. Did you do them in Sketchup? I envy the cabinet space you have provided for and the counter space you have will really come in handy. (The more space you can put assistants to work on.)

Your outside post is perfect since no one will be hanging around the outside of the BBQ anyway. If you're going to sheath it in 1" cedar I bet you could wire a horizontal spot light for your BBQ into it.

Not sure what your finished countertop material will be, but you might want to consider incorporating a small bar on top of your backsplash.

John

[texman]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Texman,

Excellent looking drawings. Did you do them in Sketchup? I envy the cabinet space you have provided for and the counter space you have will really come in handy. (The more space you can put assistants to work on.)

Your outside post is perfect since no one will be hanging around the outside of the BBQ anyway. If you're going to sheath it in 1" cedar I bet you could wire a horizontal spot light for your BBQ into it.

Not sure what your finished countertop material will be, but you might want to consider incorporating a small bar on top of your backsplash.

John

Yes, it is sketchup. That was fun <kinda> My wife likes the room too, already figuring out stuff she can store out there. I considered using steel posts so i would have the hollow to run wiring for lites, speakers, etc. But i think i can figure that out with the wood. Too hard to sheath a steel post anyway. The plan for countertops is concrete as of now. Since i am trying to keep the radius, and i dont want to pay for granite, seem kinda the only option. Dont know a thing about concrete counters other than i have seen some that look great. I plan to use block for the base counter covered in brick and have the brick on the outside edge come up two courses higher for a backsplash and bar heighth area. MAke sense? Concrete there as well. I am still considering maybe flagstone for countertops. But that has grout/mortar joints taht can be sealed. solid surface sounds better, but i think flagstone would be easier. So many choices, but this is so much fun.

[lwalper]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Just thinking about your electrical and splitting that 220V line. Unless that is a 4 wire circuit you really shouldn't split that into two circuits. You need 2 conductors for the circuit (a hot and a neutral) and 1 for the ground. A second ground rod is also not really recommended. Take everything back to the main circuit box. You've no doubt got at least a number 10 wire for an old dryer hookup. You can replace the double pole breaker with a 20 amp single pole 110V GFI breaker and have a 20 amp circuit outside. That should power just about anything you'd ever need out there.

You'll also want to install 20 amp 110V receptacles. Run a piece of conduit around the patio and install several receptacles — make them convenient, you've got plenty of juice to supply them.

[texman]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Just thinking about your electrical and splitting that 220V line. Unless that is a 4 wire circuit you really shouldn't split that into two circuits. You need 2 conductors for the circuit (a hot and a neutral) and 1 for the ground. A second ground rod is also not really recommended. Take everything back to the main circuit box. You've no doubt got at least a number 10 wire for an old dryer hookup. You can replace the double pole breaker with a 20 amp single pole 110V GFI breaker and have a 20 amp circuit outside. That should power just about anything you'd ever need out there.

You'll also want to install 20 amp 110V receptacles. Run a piece of conduit around the patio and install several receptacles ? make them convenient, you've got plenty of juice to supply them.

Thanks for the info. I knew the way i did that wasnt the best way, trying to shortcut and probably shouldnt risk with electricity. Do i need breakers in the outside box since the main board will have them? I take the problem with my initial config was the lack of ground wire. Also, the existing run is aluminum #6 i think and butt spliced it to #6 copper. So doing it right makes sense, just not going to be easy and doesnt cook pizza. Since i am taking your advice and redoing the run, i am thinking i will make two runs and have two separate 110v circuits, just in case. just not sure if i need the breaker in main box and also in outdoor box.

[texman]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Any ideas on Vent hoods out there? My area is covered and a 7.5 ft heighth.
The vent hood is for over the grill, not for the WFO, WFO will have chimney through roof. I dont really think i need a powered hood, just a way for heat and some smoke to dissapate through a roof opening. The powered hoods are great, but $3k for one doesnt make sense.

Any ideas?

[lwalper]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Yeah, #6 aluminum is common on dryer runs. It's slightly cheaper than copper, though not much, and there's always the problem of corrosion. You'll notice that receptacles and breakers are labeled Al/Cu -- either material may be used in those fittings. I've not read the code in a while, and I'm not a real electrician, but splicing copper to aluminum is probably not a good idea.

Since this circuit is outside and potentially in a wet environment, you'll want a GFI (ground fault interrupter) protected breaker somewhere in the line. You can install it in the outside receptacle (it's a little less $$ and usually more convenient to troubleshoot) or in the breaker box. But no, other than that, you really don't need a second "breaker" outside. The one in the main box will do for the circuit. That's for general circuit overload protection. The GFI is protection against electrical leakage that could potentially cause personal injury.

If you're actually going to pull new wire I personally like #12-2 with a ground (that's actually 3 conductors, two insulated, one bare). It's a few cents more expensive than the typical #14-2, but you can run 20 amps to the circuit instead of the typical 15 amps. That keeps things like heavy electric users (like waffle irons) from throwing the breaker. You can be cooking waffles and cranking ice cream on the same circuit. Now that's my kind of electricity!

Depending on your actual electrical consumption outside, you may not need to pull two circuits. Just run #12-2 to a 20 amp GFI receptacle, then run conduit to a second non-GFI receptacle somewhere on the other side of your new oven area. If wired correctly, the GFI in the first receptacle will also protect the second - they're made that way. If you want to get the job done right, you should probably consult a real electrician. If you do the labor, they might be willing to just look it over to make sure you're not going to kill yourself. Depending on where you live, this might also actually be a code job and need to be inspected.

Check This link for more information about wiring and doing it right.

[lwalper]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Texman,

You might check with a local sheet metal fabricator - someone who does A/C duct work. A lot of commercial duct is custom bent and could be easily repurposed for what you need. Even here in "smalltown" Tennessee there is a sheetmetal fabricator who could easily do the work. Just take a sketch in and see what they say. Use some 22ga welded 8 inch flue pipe coming out the top and a chimney cap and you're good to go.

[texman]

Re: New project-existing slab question

Should have a roof tomorrow. This weekend is electrical and re-route a gas line for the grill. I am wondering if i will even use the grill much once i have the wfo. Seems like the grills take 2nd place. Ready to build if can ever get this other stuff out of the way.

[JENNIFER CLARKE]

Re: New project-existing slab question

A commercial kitchen has certain requirements and regulations that are not met in a small kitchenette that you will find in an office. These spaces cost much more to rent for a reason.