36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Read about Colin's plywood guide with interest! I have seem something like that in the past. A lot simpler, just a 1/2 shape held by hand to check the bricks as they went by memory. Colin has made his to use to set his IT tool which I recon is really ingenious. You might consider even building a 1/2 shape to set your IT.
Could see myself with one as complex as Colin's and having to swap them over all the time, but that's me . Colin's aiming for small mortar joints and I can see that would require more effort so good on him.

Regards dave

[oasiscdm]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Bruce and Dave

Thanks Dave you flatter me but not its that ingenious. I use the half version too [black cardboard version] to double check, when using the IT. When I get towards the top I will attach pieces at 90 degrees following same shape to assist with the upper courses. The form now folds down in half and may end up with hinges. It is also cut inside the dome shape so I use cardboard as a spacer stapled to the edge aiding removal .

Bruce I thought I would reply to your question re mortar on your thread. I am using refractory high temp cement not premix. I'm using 3.1.1/2 Sand/Ref Cement/fire clay. I was going to use premix but the Refractory company I purchased from said I would be best doing it this way than premix. Plus Premix was very expensive.

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Collin,
I ended up with the premix because I could not find the right lime. Turned out was under my nose.

Reread the High Heat Mortar Primer sticky. Looks like I could have used home brew from the beginning.

The type N masonry cement appears locally available.

[brickie in oz]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

I dont have an answer for you Bruce on the mortar issue, if I could feel and see it I might be able to help.

[Wayne73]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

G'day Bruce, I just stumbled onto your thred.
I too had trouble with the refactory mortor, so I started again with the home brew mix and I found it very easy to work with and no cracking.So if you have now found the right lime then maybe you could start again.

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Here's an indorsment from me as well on the home brew mortar.
I am using n type mortar pre mix to do the brick veneering over my dome( if it stops raining!) . I add a squit of dish washing liquid and some fire clay to every bag. This way I know I am able to butter the end and the back of every veneer piece without it dropping off every time.
As a refractory ......the portland cement supplies the original "glue that holds the thing together. As time goes on the Portland will burn out but the lime sets and gets stronger, and provides te high temp "glue" . Lime also is more flexible and will take the thermal shock of an oven
Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Thanks for feedback regarding mortar. I will be starting a road trip on Monday headed west. We will be headed through though Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, turn north into New Mexico, and end up in a small town near Boulder, Colorado for a niece's graduation. They are having a mobile pizza oven do the catering, so hope to get some tips. At any rate the mortar issue is put to bed (so to speak) until we get back in a few weeks.

I had hoped to cut and lay out the bricks for the next course. However as soon I tried to add a vertical tilt to the jig, I realized I had no idea of what I was doing. First attempts had way too much taper from bottom to top. Could really use some help on this. Much appreciated, Bruce

[boerwarrior]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce

can you explain what you mean by vertical tilt? I am having difficulty understanding what you are having trouble with. Pictures always help too!

Neil

[kbartman]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce,
I think you may be thinking what I was thinking at this point in your build. Looking at the dome sheet calculator I input the needed parameters and ran the calculator. The 4th pic shows the spread sheet and the column labeled tilt I set my jig to 15.2 degrees and cut, and said to my self that right....... I think the sheet is talking about the tilt of brick as seen in the 2nd pic........The 1st pic is my jig which I was calling tilt the adjustment done with the long bolt and wing nut..........3rd Pic I'm calling side angle the taper of brick and adjusted by the wood back stop and wing nut............The bevel of the brick which get's rid of the inverted "V" which become more pronounced as the dome grows in courses is very small 1 to 2 degrees thus far.....I am on my 6th course I think it was about 2.5 degrees. I am adjusting the tilt of my jig to by placing my angle locator on the saw blade to find zero then placing it on the table adjusting the tilt accordingly???? trial and error at this point I not sure if this trial and error method will continue to be productive............I?m open to all others suggestions........I'm probably confused on my terms as usual but I hope this helps.

PS. I have 2 solider courses, so I?m on the 4th course according to the spreadsheet.

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce,
I think you may be thinking what I was thinking at this point in your build. Looking at the dome sheet calculator I input the needed parameters and ran the calculator. The 4th pic shows the spread sheet and the column labeled tilt I set my jig to 15.2 degrees and cut, and said to my self that right....... I think the sheet is talking about the tilt of brick as seen in the 2nd pic....

Kbartman,
I went down precisely the same rabbit hole and I quickly began thinking that some villiage was short its idiot. Actually kinda nice I wasn't the first to have gone down that path. Like they say a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing (film at 11).

....The 1st pic is my jig which I was calling tilt the adjustment done with the long bolt and wing nut..........3rd Pic I'm calling side angle the taper of brick and adjusted by the wood back stop and wing nut............The bevel of the brick which get's rid of the inverted "V" which become more pronounced as the dome grows in courses is very small 1 to 2 degrees thus far.....I am on my 6th course I think it was about 2.5 degrees. I am adjusting the tilt of my jig to by placing my angle locator on the saw blade to find zero then placing it on the table adjusting the tilt accordingly???? trial and error at this point I not sure if this trial and error method will continue to be productive............I?m open to all others suggestions........I'm probably confused on my terms as usual but I hope this helps.

PS. I have 2 solider courses, so I?m on the 4th course according to the spreadsheet.

I got to the same conclusion after a number of ahas and oh nos. I did a quick calc and determined the difference in circumference from the bottom of the brick to the top was only 1.26" total or about .045" per brick for the first level. So was in the process of trying to figure out setting the jig. Trial and error seems the best way. Thanks for the good description and help. Much appreciated, Bruce.

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce

can you explain what you mean by vertical tilt? I am having difficulty understanding what you are having trouble with. Pictures always help too!

Neil

Neil, thanks for your reply. I think Kbartman's post does a good job explaining the problems I was having. If not, feel free to jump in. Bruce

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Here's an indorsment from me as well on the home brew mortar.
I am using n type mortar pre mix to do the brick veneering over my dome( if it stops raining!) . I add a squit of dish washing liquid and some fire clay to every bag. This way I know I am able to butter the end and the back of every veneer piece without it dropping off every time.
As a refractory ......the portland cement supplies the original "glue that holds the thing together. As time goes on the Portland will burn out but the lime sets and gets stronger, and provides te high temp "glue" . Lime also is more flexible and will take the thermal shock of an oven
Regards dave

G'day Bruce, I just stumbled onto your thred.
I too had trouble with the refactory mortor, so I started again with the home brew mix and I found it very easy to work with and no cracking.So if you have now found the right lime then maybe you could start again.

Wayne and Dave,
Been thinking about your comments. I must admit having some reluctance to giving up on the refractory mortar given that it is already paid for. Current plan is to pick up a bag of the Portland and lime mix and mix up a batch when I get home. In the meantime I may post a question on the fb mortar thread and see if there are any supporters of the refractory who care to offer advice. If I do switch to home brew can the refractory be used to provide extra thermal mass as a cladding over the brick?

[brickie in oz]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

can the refractory be used to provide extra thermal mass as a cladding over the brick?

Yes it can.

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Off on a road trip....1/2 your luck .... It really sounds exciting. Would you mind posting a few pics? I'd be really interested to see some non commercial views of the states. You could start a post in the chat section at the bottom ( near the Ozzies funnily enough).
Anyway oven will survive under the blue tarp and thoughts of mortar can wait.
Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Off on a road trip....1/2 your luck .... It really sounds exciting. Would you mind posting a few pics? I'd be really interested to see some non commercial views of the states. You could start a post in the chat section at the bottom ( near the Ozzies funnily enough).
Anyway oven will survive under the blue tarp and thoughts of mortar can wait.
Regards dave

We will be driving pretty much straight to get there by Thur pm (leaving Tue am) and distance is almost 1700 miles (2735 km). Current plan is to spend a few days in Santa Fe, NM and New Orleans, LA on the way back. I will try and get a few pics. Here is a link to some pictures I took a few years ago out west. I drove by myself and met up for about a week in New Mexico. On way back stopped at Roswell, NM and Carlsbad, Caverns NM (pics 1 & 2). If you like travel pics I can link to a few other trips.

Finished repairs on the initial courses and cut brick for new course. As you said now covered under a blue tarp.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116856554293388448546/WesternTripAugust2011?authkey=Gv1sRgCOWqwvyo0tyaEA

Link to western trip photos.