36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Your well on the way to collecting all the bits you need. Good score on the firebrick... There three times as expensive here and with transport costs..wow
Shame about the lime I could find lime at 5 different places within 20 mins. But high temp cement only in 2 places and expensive as well.
If you are determined to have a rectangular entrance so be it. I have one and the metal expands and I have hairline cracks in the mortar not the brick. The oven cools and they disappear.
Notice that you have had no comment on the stand. I would have core filled it myself. And it's easy to do mix up sloppy concrete in a bucket and pore it in. Doesn't even take much concrete either. If you can't do this at this stage I suppose time will tell. But there is a few positives. The forno stand is massively overbuilt to start with. You have only 3 block height and the structure is quite squat. You have a stable base and will be putting 160 odd bricks on top to pin it down.
I think you can leave the entrance at this stage especially as you have the set back to build it later. There are ovens with no chimneys I have a friend with one you do have to put up with a face full of smoke on occasions though.
Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Thanks Dave,
Pouring the cores might have been easier then I imagined. But I need to say, just mixing one bag of the surface bonding cement was pretty exhausting. In terms of strength, those blocks aren't going anywhere. Given that the base is virtually solid block and the there is angle iron spanning the storage area every 8", I'm confident in the stand (particularly since frost and seismic activity aren't issues here) holding. Admittedly this confidence has no basis in experience or real knowledge. I was scared off the pompelli plans calling for 14 80 lb bags of concrete to fill the cores and another 17 bags for the slab. Time will tell if my build holds up.

As to the arch, not committed either way. Maybe I should start on the arch and bail to the rectangle if necessary. Assuming I am correct that the rectangular entry simplifies the build, I guess I just need to better understand the upside to the arch. I appreciate your previous offer to share your experience and help me through the process. Sounds like you think leaving about 24" for the chimney and front shelf is about right, correct?

Any opinion on the soldier or sailor issue?

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Doug
I'll answer you question as best I can over a few posts I'm at work.
Mixing mortar ... Get yourself one of those paint mixers to put on your electric drill the ones about 2 ft long. You can then mix mortar in a bucket and potter along at you own pace.
Set back ... 24 in for you sounds a bit deep. A brick is roughly 8 ins so that's 3 bricks deep. Mine is deep at 2 and 1/2 bricks deep. So say 1&1/2 bricks roughly 12 to 14 ins . You'll have to check it out with your bricks on the stand to find out. That will give you room for a chimney easy.

Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Dave,
I'm Bruce but call me anything you like, your comments are truly appreciated. So far it looks like it's mostly you and me on this build, though I hope others join in. I'm not sure what you are saying about the setback. The 24" is 12" for chimney and outer entry plus 12" for a shelf in front.

Back to the build, assuming I try to make an inner entry arch, just how difficult is it to tie in the rows of brick to the arch? Finally, any opinion on the soldier v sailor v neither issue?

Just to recap my experience in this:

Number of bricks cut: 1 to test used saw from Craig's list.
Number of bricks laid: 0
Number of ovens built: 0

And just to add to the the degree of difficulty, I am trying to do this by myself working from a wheelchair. Hence, I gladly accept all the advice and sharing of experience I can get.

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Mate
Did I read that right ......1-nil,I think you on a winner!
Regards sailor vs soldier.....neither .... Start it on a row of 1/2 bricks build on the hearth you can't go wrong. It's a big oven a 36 in ,so the angle of the wall means that it should interfere with anything in the oven!

If you look on the left you see the top of the square entry and those transition brick cuts that is probably the hardest part of the oven I think. I think those four bricks would be just as hard for an arch as a flat topped entrance!
Any thoughts on you construction method are you getting any help or are you doing this all yourself
Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Dave,
I put together an IT so plan to use through most of the build. For the final rows will likely use an inflatable ball. Not committed to this if there is a better method.

I guess the other decision is whether to do tapered cuts on the bricks.

Bruce

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Had a class last night so it was late when I heard of the bombing at Boston ... Angry that whomever did this, strikes at the heart of being human and enjoying doing something as a community.
By the way just noted that the "views" on your thread jumped from 422 to over 600. Thats overnight. I think you have generated a bit of interest.
Regards Dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Boston was certainly tragic and shocking. Emotionally though I was much more affected by Newtown (both my children passed away ages 16 and 20 - natural causes). It is very hard to even begin to understand how this somehow makes sense to the bombers. I hope they are caught very quickly. Still, lost in these events and blows to people's sense of safety is that in reality the homicide rate in at historic lows in this country. It is currently about one half of what it was in 1980 and violent crime in general show similar trends.

Hadn't noticed the jump in page views, I hope they hang on through the build and free free to jump in. I had a busy day and haven't been able to work on the layout. Went to a luncheon with our university's (Florida State University) baseball coach, took my van in to have ramp repaired, and met with my wheelchair provider to start the process of getting a new chair. Right now I'm at a baseball game. Hope to be able to work on the entry layout tomorrow. Bruce

[Capt]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hadn't noticed the jump in page views, I hope they hang on through the build and free free to jump in.

I'm still watching! I had about 600 views on my build thread, and I think 4-5 people commented. I would've thought more questions would have been asked, or maybe they think it's ugly and do not wanna hurt my feelings. lol

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

That or they were so in awe that they were speechless. . Glad you are on board. I think I saw you live in Oakland, were you with Detroit Fire Dept?

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Still trying to work out the opening and inner entry. I have looked at a number of builds and most have made arches. I noticed that in some builds the arch starts from the floor of the hearth and in others the sides are straight vertical and the arch begins at various heights. This hybrid approach seems to offer the advantage of allowing a larger opening and simplifying the initial levels of the dome (a benefit to a 1st time builder with no experience).

What are the disadvantages?
How high can the opening be kept straight before beginning the arch and still retain the benefits of the arch that Dave has noted?
Any other comments or recommended builds to look at.

Thanks, Bruce

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
so for the slow reply ...its being a long day at the sandpit.
Your interested in the strait sides with the arch at the top. Yep I can see why you have a lot more room at those top corners and after using my mates oven with a 1/2 circle arch, I agree. It would probably suit your use of an oven from a chair as well as anyone standing upright.
First, off go to my oven, I have made a mod to my oven entrance with that type of arch, if you look at the point where it transits from strait to the curve youll see a small cut brick. This is the weak point. The arch bears down on that brick and its holding mortar. Yes I'm aware of it and plan to strenghten it with another wall of brick along side it. I got some bricks for it and to put a 1/2 brick veneer over my whole dome last weekend. A long thought out plan coming to together ......slowly.
Of course the oven entrance itself will not reqiure the support as it will be support by the dome, only the outer arch will require the extra support on the sides
Check out "New 36 in build at Bunderberg" in the Introductions section, Brickie has included a link on Archs that could be a help.
Regards Dave

[cobblerdave]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Ok theres a bit on archs. Now for flat entrances. You know the disadvantages and the fact that it is no easier to tie a dome into a flat entrance than an arch. So it comes down to tools, time and Tec knowhow.
Tools... Not everyone has the tools on hand to build an arch form etc ...it adds to the expense to buy them. And wastefull if its little used in the future. ( and some folk see it good excuse to buy more tools HaHa!
Time. As a simpler process ... No extra time building forms etc sometime best spend with friends and family.
Tec know... Not all of us have previous experience ... There's a hell of a lot of different processes involved in an building an oven cutting a few of them down just simplifies things.
Anyway Bruce your the man on the ground it's up to you to pick what suits.

Regards dave

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Dave,
Thanks for laying out the some of the issues. In terms of tools, I am pretty well set. I have a jig saw to cut plywood for the form and an older Felker Tilemaster saw. What else would I need? Experience is another story, as noted earlier I've never laid a brick prior to this project. Like most of my DIY endeavors, I suspect it will be about the time I finish that I will have acquired the skills I needed when I started. The brick I ordered did not come in today so I continued trying to work out the layout.

I made a cardboard cutout the size of the outer wall (45") and set it back 24" from the front edge. The red bricks in front represent a 12" shelf and the opening is 18" x 12".

My first thought was, "wow, the cooking surface sure looks a long way away." With the setback in the picture it is about 42" to the center of the oven. I hope to get some discussion about setback distances and whether the benefits of a wider shelf outweigh the added difficulty (if indeed it is more difficult) of having to use longer handled tools. Bruce

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce,

That is quite a reach, at this point of your build you can experiment by moving your template around. Take a broom stick and see how the distance works for you, not only for placing pizza, but moving coals and logs around. A lot of us never laid a brick until this WFO endeavor, I was one and certainly could not make a living with it , just be patient.