Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

[Randomsteve]

Hi!

I'm new to this forum being that I just registered today but I have definitely been doing a lot of reading around on here and finding tons and tons of useful info.

I have wanted a Wood fired pizza oven for years but never really thought it was anything but just a dream until a few months ago when then idea got brought back up after having finished re-landscaping our entire yard by removing some trees, adding grass, a homeade wood table, and the piece de resistance a 120" projector screen and surround sound system for outdoor movie nights (All in our 30x30 backyard for about 1k$). Anyway, now that we actually have a usable backyard and frequently have people over for movies, and the fact that I love to bake pizza brought the idea of a pizza oven up again.

Since then I have been searching all over the net finding and reading every article about pizza ovens I can find, learning how it is they cook, being amazed that you can cook a pizza in 90secs, understanding the difference between refractory and insulatory layers, and just plain being overwhelmed and amazed at how complex pizza ovens really are. So I have decided to come to the experts and throw some ideas around and see if I can't get some plans drawn up and then actually start working on one.

So here's a rough idea of what I'm thinking. I'm gonna do a concrete foundation with a cinder block wall sitting on top. Form poured on top of that will be a concrete pad of several inches thick. Then on that would go the Insulation layer, then a firebrick floor. The dome on that would be a 36" dome made of a 3inch thick refractory cement covered by 4 inches of the same insulation layer that is under the firebrick (Probably a vermiculite, sand, cement mix). Then over the top of the insulation layer would be a tinted stucco. That's the rough idea I have, now for my questions and concerns.



pretty much all of my questions/concerns are about the dome as the pad and platform its going to sit on is going to be a cake walk to build no matter how we end up doing it.


My main thing is building the dome out of a refractory cement. I'm looking to cut cost anywhere and everywhere I can without loosing performance or durability if at all possible. After looking at the number of bricks it would take as well as the cost it seems that it would be around 500$ just to build the refractory layer which is way more then I can afford to spend. I am hoping that I will be able to do the entire project for around that cost but we will see.

I've seen a few people on here make ovens out of a high heat castable and it seems like it has gone off well. I plan on using the recipe that is floating around here of Cement, Fire clay, lime and sand, in a 1-1-1-3 mixture. My concern with this is 2 fold.

1. Strength. I'm concerned about casting a 36inch dome out of castable cement without any kind of reinforcements. For you guys who have experience working with this stuff, how well can I expect it to stand up without any kind of internal reinforcement?

2. Cracking. I'm also concerned about having it crack on me, either while its drying/curing, or after a few baking cycles. I've seen people make them into several pieces, and I've also heard of people mixing in rope fibers to make micro steam tubes for pressure release. Which one of these ideas is better? Should I do both?


Another thing I would love to see you guys weigh in on is dome or barrel. I plan to doing mainly pizzas in the oven, but I also like to bake bread on occasion, and I think it would be fun to do a turkey or roast on occasion as well. What shape would you say is more versatile, dome or barrel? Why?


Also what about size? I threw a 36inch dome out there but to be completely honest I don't know what size I would want. I would love to be able to bake a few loves of bread at a time, I want it to be easy to use, but I also want it to be casual user friendly in the fact that I won't be using it every day, or even every week and I don't want it to take 100 hours to get up to temperature. What size would you recommend and why?

Another small thing but still a question and concern of mine is, when you lay the brick cooking floor do you grout the bricks at all? and
what do you use to adhere it to the insulation layer below? Also, would it be a bad idea to insulate and brick the entire concrete top?Or should I just insulate and brick the cooking floor and do something different for the rest of the top?


As it stands right now I am in the phase of shopping around and looking at material cost, deciding where it should go in the backyard, how tall the platform should be, how big of an oven, what materials, what color, when, and how. I'm trying to get something down on paper soon though so that I can slowly start acquiring the materials and working on things as I get the time/money. I've got no completion deadline as this is just a "for fun" project of mine.


Anyway, I really really appreciate this website. There is so much more about pizza ovens then I could have ever imagined and this site seems to contain a little bit about everything. Thanks for helping me to turn a dream into a reality.

[Randomsteve]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

I didn't mean to bombard the forums with tons of questions or to be a bother. I know only what I have read online so far about WFO and have a good number of questions and concerns about making one before I throw down the cash to buy the materials.

I threw all my questions up at once not expecting someone to come and answer every single one but in the hope that anyone who takes a look at this thread would have something they could comment on.


I can read plans and look at diagrams all day, but in the long run what I am most interested in is peoples experiences with their own personal WFO. What do you like the most about your build? What would change if you did it over again? What is 1 thing that you would like to tell anyone getting ready to make their own? I don't mean to overload anyone I just am genuinely excited and interested in this subject.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

G'day
Oven size. I built a 42 in oven and love how it cooks . It is massive though. I'd never contemplate pulling it down and building smaller but I still only cook 1 pizza at a time like most ovens do. You don't need the biggest oven.
You don't need to make a caste oven either just because you don't think you have not the expertise to lay bricks. All of these guys are first time oven builders and I could count the amount of guys with previous bricklaying experience on one hand I recon. You don't have to invest a great amount in time and equipment either to build a perfectly good oven . If you were to employ someone to build a oven with the amount of cutting some of these ovens have it would cost you a fortune.
Anyway just a few thoughts
Regards dave

[deejayoh]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Pizza and movie night is great. I have a 132" screen on the back of my house, and we host movie nights a few times a summer.

To your plan:

You shouldn't need more than about 225-250 firebricks for a 36" oven - including the floor, and they should cost about $1.50 each. Compare that to the cost of real refractory cement (ciment fondu) PLUS the SS needles you should use with that and I think you'll find the cost of firebricks is not so bad. Personally, I wouldn't go with the homebrew plan. I think that homebrew is mortar. And mortar is not concrete. Concrete is like cake, mortar is frosting. I wouldn't build a oven out of frosting.

Watch craigslist for used firebricks. They come up pretty frequently. Or I think IIRC, there is somewhere in Cali near Sacramento that sells 2nds. If that is near you, search around the forum for that.

Read the plans, follow the guidelines. Especially for the base/hearth.

[deejayoh]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

here's the thread. Can't believe I remembered this given all the other crap I forget.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/h...html#post17193

It's a few years old, but it seems like the place is still there. Worth a call

H.C. Muddox - Residential Brick, Commercial Brick, Structural Brick, Paver & Pool Coping Brick, Thin Brick and Fireplace Brick

[Greenman]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

To share my experience - I built a 36" Pompeii from the FB plan from used firebricks. The bricks came from a kiln and had been stacked so they had no mortar on them. The floor bricks had been around for a long time but were unused. I got them quite cheaply, less than $1 each.

I put vermicrete over the dome, a render and and then an acrylic coat overcoat to waterproof it.

I have been using it for well over a year and am very happy with it. I can cook 2 pizza at once comfortably or 3 baking trays with ease. I have used it for everything from pizza, roasting meat and vegetables, deserts and in the final cooling stages to dehydrate vegetables. It all works with a little practice and experimentation.

The single most expensive part of my build was the S/S flue, chimney pipe and hat. I kept track of the costs and excluding the brick saw the whole show cost me $1 K.

I love the look of the bricks inside and so do my visitors. If I built another it would be much the same but I would explore the use of radius blocks at the back of the base if I was going to make it an 'igloo'.

Best project I have ever undertaken and best money I ever spent.

Good luck with your build and I am sure that you will find the build rewarding and the finished oven a joy to use.

[Randomsteve]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Wow! Thanks guys. I came back to the computer after having been mulling over the ideas, plans, and thoughts that go into a pizza oven with mixed feelings. The creative side of my brain freaks out a little telling me I don't have the skill nor creativity to make one and that it would be a waste of time, the logical side of my brain saying its gonna cost to much. But still in the back of my mind somewhere the adventurous side of me saying "Do it!".

I'm not gonna lie, the economy here is tough, work is kinda sparse and extra money is short so I tend to feel like if I am going to do something I need to know every little thing about it. Your guys enthusiasm and knowledge makes it seem so much easier.

G'day
Oven size. I built a 42 in oven and love how it cooks
Regards dave

Pizza and movie night is great. I have a 132" screen on the back of my house, and we host movie nights a few times a summer.

I love the look of the bricks inside and so do my visitors

Awesome! Thats exactly the kind of thing I needed to hear. I definitely feel that brick is better in ever way. No matter what I do 1 thing is for certain the cooking floor is going to be firebrick. We have thrown around the idea of doing a homebrew cement and going for a cast like a few others have done on here but I can see that you guys really truly believe that brick is the way to go. Looks like I am going to be doing some more calling around for prices and seeing what I can get my hands on.


Deejayoh I will be calling that place as soon as I get the chance. If I can get some bricks from there I would be so stoked! Thanks for pulling up those links!




I think most of the questions I have posted have been answered in some sense. At this point the only reason why I would do a homebrew cement cast is if it ends up being that way or no oven. After reading even more, and looking at what you guys have said about your ovens I feel 36" is going to be the right size for me. I also feel that a dome shape will be better then a barrel in my case.



I am still curious as to what you guys do for the cooking floor bricks. Do you simply lay them on the dried vermiculite insulating layer? Or do you lay while said layer is still wet? Or, do you do a thinset of highheat mortar to stick your brick down?


You guys have really encouraged me to actually do this and make myself a pizza oven. I'm going to start mulling over the details in my head and hopefully get some measurements and plans down on paper soon. If I may I will be reporting back with some rough ideas on the exact details to see if any of you guys with experience with this kind of thing see any flaws in my plans.

[Greenman]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

The floor bricks go directly on the vermicrete, with a little sand and fireclay to level them up. Having the floor bricks cut to fit inside the dome rather than the dome sitting on the hearth bricks is the preferred method.

[deejayoh]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

I think you can do a 36" oven with as few as 150 bricks if you don't taper them. The old-school oven builders would just break the bricks in two and use the smooth face inside the oven. That style of building doesn't result in the tightest joints, but it uses fewer bricks and will work just fine. Added plus is you don't need a brick saw. Combine that with using home brew, and you can probably stay under $300 for the dome.

Then you just have to source your vent/flue. Plenty of builders have used clay flues. They work just fine, especially if you're going with an igloo - where you don't have any issues with contact w/flammable building materials.

I think you can probably make your $500 budget with brick.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

G'day
I brought 175 bricks a batch of 75 to start then an other 100. Have still got 12 left somewhere in the stand. That got me a 42 inch dome. No drop saw, just brick bulster and angle grinder The entrance and chimney were commons and house brick and do the job quite well outside the dome.
Don't scrimp on the firebrick for the dome and Never think of not or under insulating! The rest will come you way if you look around.
The block for the stand, I had some, swapped some brick for some and finally had to buy some 1/2s to complete. The angle iron supporting the stand entrance is from an old bed. All the formwork for the stand slab was repurposed from a neighbors kitchen renovation. Melamine makes the best form work gives you a great finish.
I'm sure if your creative you'll find that most things can be found or brought. Non structural pine studs for example are a 1/4 cost of prime studs and once used make good kindling.
I'm sure you can do it and just take you time and spread the cost over time and it will come together.
Regards dave

[SableSprings]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Hi!

Another thing I would love to see you guys weigh in on is dome or barrel. I plan to doing mainly pizzas in the oven, but I also like to bake bread on occasion, and I think it would be fun to do a turkey or roast on occasion as well.

I had the same questions as you when I started my WFO adventure. My main goal was to be able to bake anything in the oven. My brick, 39" modified beavertail dome has been a real joy to work and my 15-20 loaves a week are given to my neighbors...who are now a little upset if I travel too much. We have had great success with breads, beer can chicken, beans, souffles, risotto (in a steel pan on the hearth), roasted veggies, breadsticks, cookies, biscotti, turkey, roasts, as well as the standard pizza. Sounds like you're on track for versatility with the brick dome design. Looking forward to reading about your progress.

I do suggest if you are planning on baking much with stored heat (without active coals/flames) consider adding an ash slot and integrated ash container. Being able to fire your oven to baking temps and then simply pulling the ash into the container (to be dealt with later) makes baking day a lot more efficient and user friendly. Also don't forget that you are going to need a place to store wood that's going to give you easy access and not going to detract from your entertainment area.

[deejayoh]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

This is mainly a dome site. I don't think you are going to get too many votes for a barrel!

[Greenman]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Count me as a vote for the dome as the 'all rounder'.

[Randomsteve]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Ok sweet! I called that company in Sac and they said they actually just got some seconds in not to long ago and would be willing to sell a few hundred to me for .35 a piece. WOOT! Full brick oven here I come!


Ok so I told the guy that I would give him a call back in a few days and setup a time to head down there and pick them up, but before I do that I need to know how many I should be getting. Its been decided that a 36" dome will be the shape and size so how many would you recommend picking up? I have heard numbers anywhere from 100 to 300 and would like to know how many you would recommend. Sac is a good 2hr drive from my house so preferably I would like to grab all the brick I am going to need for the whole thing at once.


I know that the amount of bricks used varies depending on how much you cut the bricks and how tight you have them fit. I am not a perfectionist but I also don't like to do things half cocked so I figure we will be cutting some but not all of the bricks. I was thinking about grabbing 300 bricks, I guess you would have to remember that these are seconds so I would assume some are not going to be in the best of condition. What do you think?


Ah man! I appreciate your guys input more then you can believe. Many thanks for directing me to H.C. Muddox for the bricks, and also for helping me make up my mind on shape.

[Randomsteve]

Re: Oven ideas, opinions, facts and experiences

Just to double check with you guys with more experience with this kind of brick, here's a link to the specs of the bricks that I was quoted for. That look like the right kind of brick to make an oven out of?


its mainly a safety chart but it seems to give the composition of the bricks on the first page if that is useful at all. This should be the dimensions and such of said bricks.