36" in DFW Area

[Texas]

Re: 36" in DFW Area

Deejayoh - I might. Have a lot of additional info to post yet with our build and would need to clean up the file for anyone else to use..... I have a lot of hidden stuff in there and a bunch of drawn items that only I know why they are in there. For someone learning sketchup it would be confusing and someone knowledgeable about sketchup would wonder what I was doing! I also have to figure out how to get the extension right for posting here.

UPDATE 4/18/2015 - I think I figured out how to post the sketchup file - http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/3...tml#post184276 - when you open it, have to click on edit, hover on unhide, then click all in order to see the hole drawing.... some kind of glitch makes this way of saving it small enough to post!

Sharptailhunter - the Dewalt XP4 lasted longer than the others and cut straighter for us. We also liked the kerf of the blade. One of the others was much thinner and was more difficult to line up our straight and perpendicular cuts to the blade without bending the blade when holding the square against it. I think one of them had a "lip" on the edge that also made lining things up difficult for us. We changed the blade when the saw just stopped cutting right.... of course the first time was when we were doing the difficult inner arch cuts! We did several cuts thru a cinderblock to extend the life of the blades, but we ended up just using new blades. Felt like we had to do a lot of cuts thru the cinderblock to help clear the diamonds and then it didn't keep cutting as long as we wanted, so just put on a new blade. There is some good info about blade matrix and diamond if you search the posts by Tscarborough key word matrix or Brickie in Oz key word glaze.

[Sharkey]

Re: 36" in DFW Area

Well done on both the finished oven and passing on detailed information. It's amazing how much shared knowledge and experience is available on this forum.

I am pleased that my build gives others some ideas for their own builds. I think mine was the first on FB with the inner arch bricks tapered to tie in with the dome bricks, although I just copied that from the Field Furnace guys (FF being the Sydney supplier of WFO materials and also a builder of ovens). Karangi Dude was building his tapered arch at about the same time - he also bought his materials from Field Furnace. I am pretty sure that the S-curve vent was original in my oven and it's good to see it used regularly in other builds.

PS - I love the old-school 3D modelling using cardboard!

[deejayoh]

Re: 36" in DFW Area

Wow. This is impressively detailed stuff! And a beautiful finished oven.

Can you post the Sketchup files? That much work should not go to waste, and I bet they would be super helpful to other builders.

[sharptailhunter]

Re: 36" in DFW Area - Supplies & Equipment

?best saw blade for us - Dewalt XP4 (used 2) and 2 other Dewalt XP4 - best price for us was at homedepot.com DEWALT XP4 10 in. x 1/16 in. Premium Wet Diamond Blade Model # DW4764

Could you please provide a little more info about what made this the best blade? Mainly just curious. I have the same HF tile/brick saw as you. I've used quite a bit for other projects and it has cut great so far but before I begin cutting my firebricks I want to throw new blade on there. I appreciate you posting this so I, and others, can maybe save some time and money by not having to do the trial and error that you already have. Also, how did you know when it was time to change the blade? Does it just take more effort to push the brick through, or does it not make as nice (straight?) of cuts?

Thanks, Alex

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area

The IT and jigs we used are posted here:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...rms-21566.html

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Supplies & Equipment

Supplies & Equipment

•Insblock - 1 box of 16 sheets 1" x 12"x 36" from Harbison Walker $122.14 for a total of 3" of insulation under the floor
•floor tiles - 12"x12"x2.5" Alsey High Duty firebricks from Larkin ordered 13 - used 12 total - 11 for floor, 1 for vent (screwed anchor plate to it). We cut the floor tiles in the circle and put the Empire S bricks around the floor bricks because it was a much better use of material for a 36" diameter oven.
•bricks for dome, arch and vent - Harbison Walker Empire S 9"x4.5"x2.5"- paid $2.33 each - used 173 total. Very little waste.
•Used 3- 50 lb bags HeatStop 50 - paid $59.95 per bag for 2 from Gartex Masonry and $74.15 with tax at Metro Brick and Stone because Gartex was out of stock when we needed another bag. We did not waste much and did not have much left. No way could we have done it with only 2 bags, but it wouldn't have taken too many goofs to push us to bag #4.
•100 sf 1" 8# Inswool HP Blanket (2 boxes at 1"x24"x25') $65.00 per box from Larkin
•Econolite - used 4 - 25 pound bags. Bought from Larkin at $18.25 per 25 pound bag.
•Tile Saw - Bought 10" tile saw from Harbor Freight (Item #69275) for $265.19 (including warranty) and tile saw stand (item #69325) for $40.58. Cut depth of the saw was too shallow to entirely cut thru arch bricks, so we rented a 14" saw to cut the vent arch bricks from Sunbelt Rental. Well worth the rental cost!!!
•best saw blade for us - Dewalt XP4 (used 2) and 2 other Dewalt XP4 - best price for us was at homedepot.com DEWALT XP4 10 in. x 1/16 in. Premium Wet Diamond Blade Model # DW4764 Internet # 202351849. Here are the four blades we used.
1.DEWALT 10-in Wet Continuous Diamond Circular Saw Blade
Item #: 254983 | Model #: DW4764 (Lowes)
2.RIDGID Model # CP10P Internet # 100606322 Store SKU # 679549
10 in. Diamond-Edge Tile Circular Saw Blade (Home Depot)
3. 10 in. Black Widow Micro-Segmented Diamond Blade for Porcelain and Ceramic Tile Model # 6-1008BW Internet # 202504032
4. DEWALT Model # DW4764 Internet # 202351849 XP4 10 in. x 1/16 in. Premium Wet Diamond Blade (Home Depot)
•DuraTech Anchor plate 6" diameter = DuraTech 6DT-AP 810000116 6" Diameter Anchor Plate (no picture), Chimney cap - picture #1, chimney pipe in two lengths pictures #2 & #3
•Tapcon screws = 1/4" x 1 3/4" Stainless Steel to mount anchor plate,
•Uni-Extreme High temp sealer - bought 1 tube $59.58 - McGill AirSeal. Not sure would use again.... not as flexible as thought and didn't stick to the metal as well as thought it would.
•2 pair monkey grips gloves - Grease Monkey Model # 25053-030 Internet # 202709681 Store SKU # 648673 Large Gorilla Grip Glove (used for protecting hands while handling bricks and mortar)
•3 boxes blue gloves (like latex gloves), 5 red masonry pencils
•Various wood boards to cut templates
•Various screws & fasteners
•popsicle sticks & balsa wood

A spreadsheet of our costs for building the oven (not including the oven base, ground work, concrete, cinderblock enclosure, finishing work, etc.) is attached.

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Specs

Specs for our oven:

?36" inside diameter oven. Floor inside dome. Floor 12"x12"x2.5" firebrick.
?Finished oven floor height = 48" (the contractor made the base stand higher than it should have been for a 48" finished oven height, but it was adjusted when the travertine floor was installed. Base stand was supposed to be at 42.5" to top of concrete from top of travertine to allow for 3" insulation and 2.5" floor height)
?Inner arch - 19" wide, 12" total inside height, 9.5" radius. The arch sits on a 2.5"high brick (so arch height = 9.5" + 2.5" = total inside height of 12". Each arch brick (19 total), was cut to 2 3/16" on the wide side (outside) and 1 7/16" narrow side (inside).
?Vent arch - ours has a 1.5" reveal. Vent arch dimensions are width = 22", radius = 11", total height = 13.5".
?Vent pipe 6" ID
?Corner build - dimensions of stand. (picture #1) Target dimensions for stand 70.5" on sides forming the back corner (post is in back corner), 39.5" remaining on left and right sides after cut off for front (left side is showing first in this picture), 43.25" angled front (above the wood storage area, where front of oven will be). Actual dimensions were 70.5", 70.75", 39", 39.5", 43.75"
?Wood storage opening is 35.5" wide, 41" tall (actual finished height will be less due to travertine tiles put on cement floor), 45" deep. The contractors used 4x8x16 blocks to finish the wood storage area, instead of 8x8x16, in order to make the storage area as large as possible and minimize the number of cinderblocks that would need to be cut. Not a great picture (picture #2), but does show the wood storage from the front. I had a copy of UtahBeehiver's base printed in my files as inspiration (picture #3). His was a 42" oven, but the concept is the same. (source = #23 in UtahBeehiver's picture log = Picassa Album Link https://plus.google.com/u/0/10287264...43690731037496

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

?To estimate how much of the blanket insulation to order, I calculated the surface area of a half sphere. 1/2 (4*pi*r*r) and did not subtract out the arch. I also calculated the bottom surface area for the 3" of insulation, the 2.5" floor layer, and the 2.5" sailor area. These were calculated using circumference C = 2*pi*r, then times the height of these layers (3+2.5+2.5 = 8" (converted to feet)). We bought 100 sq ft and decided would make it due, because we didn't want 200 sq ft!!

Layer #1: r = 18 + 4.5 = 22.5"
(divide by 12"/ft to calc in ft) Dome surface area =22.1 sq ft
Bottom surface area = 7.85 sq ft
Layer #2: R = 22.5" + 1" = 23.5" Dome surface area =24.1 sq ft
Bottom surface area =8.2 sq ft
Layer #3: R = 23.5" + 1" = 24.5" Dome surface area =26.2 sq ft
Bottom surface area =8.5 sq ft
Bought 100 sq ft Total est surface area =96.95 sq ft


?To estimate how much of the Econolite to order..... 25 lbs covers approx 1 cu ft (1728 cu in). I calculated the surface area of a half sphere. 1/2 (4*pi*r*r) and did not subtract out the arch. r = 18" (dome radius)+4.5" (brick wall of dome) +3" (blanket insulation) = 25.5". This is an estimate, not an exact calculation of the volume for the dome, if 1" thick = (4*3.14*25.5*25.5)/2*1 = 4083.57 cu in. To go around the insulation board area and the floor/sailor course ---> r= 25.5" h= 3" + 2.5" + 2.5" = 8". if 1" thick = 2*pi*25.5*8*1 = 1281.12 cu in. (1281.12+ 4083.57)/1728 = 3.1 bags. we ordered 4 bags. Larkin had suggested 2" thick, which would have been approx 6 bags.

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

?Picture #1 - Model of the insulation layers (the top layer on the far right, was cut slightly different...moved oven location toward the bottom of the picture, so that there was not the small curved section at the top, shown in purple/blue).

?Picture #2 - Model of the floor. These dimensions were used to help cut the wooden template used to mark the insulation board, then to cut the board down and mark the floor tiles, then cut the board to use to mount the IT and cover the floor when building the oven. This model also shows the layout of the floor tiles and visually where they need to be cut. We decided to cut the floor tiles and build the dome around the floor, because with this layout, we could use 3 tiles, 12" each, which made an X shape with a dimension of 36". If we built the dome on the floor, instead of around the floor, we would have needed 36" + 9" = 45"... so the number of 12" tiles increased and so did the unusable amount. If your diameter is different... the layout would be different too. Notice that in some cases, two of the finished tiles were cut from a single 12"x12"x2.5" tile. One is marked on the left side of the figure. The mirror image on the right side, were also from a single tile. The three small triangles at the front (bottom of picture) are also from cut off pieces of tiles used. We used 11 floor tiles and cut them to make the floor shown. (this model shows the dimension of 13 3/8" instead of 14 3/8" from the center to where the arch going to meet the dome because I didn't take into account the IT being 1 1/8" off the floor. It didn't change anything for this portion of the build)

?Picture #3 - And here it is with the tiles counted out.

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

I made templates with the dimensions in the chart above to mark each layer of bricks. A copy of the template used to mark the Blue layer #4 is shown below. These were made and printed to scale using Microsoft Publisher. They were made out of cardstock. Cut on outside lines, fold and tape, then wrap around brick and mark with masonry pencil. Generally marked 3 bricks to use in setting up the jig. Once jig set up, cut unmarked bricks, for the entire layer (counted the number used in SketchUp as an estimate for how many would need).

Picture #1 - Here is the estimate of how many cut bricks (not whole bricks) would be needed for each layer.
#2 & #3 - printed template, and shown wrapped around brick for marking

There is more information and a file containing all of the templates here http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...tml#post184287

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

And then my daughter taught me how to use GoogleSketchUp 8....
•I made a model in SketchUp 8 with the dimensions calculated in the excel spreadsheet attached (Pompeii dome calculatorposting zip.zip). I started with Deejayoh dome spreadsheet calculator (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...tor-18131.html), but the bricks I made in sketchup based on those calculations didn't seem to work right. So I modified some of the calculations and added columns showing what the dimensions of the inside top and bottom and the outside top and bottom would be. These dimensions made it easier for me to make the "bricks" in sketchup, make the templates for cutting and checking to see that our saw was cutting the size bricks we thought we wanted. Once I made the bricks in sketchup based on the spreadsheet dimensions, I modified any of the sketch-up bricks to fit better in the model, and recorded the dimensions that would work best for us. I also counted how many cut bricks were used in each layer in sketch-up and we would use that as a best guess on how many bricks to cut once our jig was set up.

The spreadsheet I used for our calculations is attached.

The Google Sketchup is attached... when you open, click on edit, then hover on unhide, click on all.... then you can see the model. This was the only way I could figure out how to get it to save it all in a small enough file for posting here. It was made in Google Sketchup 8.

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

?Dimensions we used to cut our bricks for the dome (36" diameter). (corrected on 3/22/2015 - originally posted wrong file for row #9)

?The red layer dimensions were used twice. One red row was at the same level as the floor bricks and the second red row was used as the sailor row. These cuts did not require the jig, because they were just the one angle to help form the circle. The sides were straight up/down cuts (no bevel). We used the angle set tool that came with the saw to help cut these first two rows.

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - Design Phase

?Vent arch - ours has a 1.5" reveal. Vent arch dimensions are width = 22", radius = 11", total height = 13.5". Arch sits on a 2.5"high base brick to get total height (arch height = 11" +2.5" = 13.5"). Cut 20 bricks into wedge shapes - wide side 2 3/8", narrow side 1 11/16". Then cut 10 of these wedges into 3" and 6" pieces (not exact, as bricks were not exactly 9" long, and varied a little in length).

Picture #1 - The pink cardstock "bricks" are the arch base bricks. A regular 2.5" x 4.5" x 9" brick. By placing a base brick, we could obtain the final height and width and still have the arch part be a hemisphere.

Picture #2 & #3 - In these views, you can see the vent portion was also made as a mock to see how they might work together.

[texman]

Re: 36" in DFW Area

tex

that model looks harder to make than the real one!

Texman

[Texas]

36" in DFW Area - design phase

Picture #1 - Inside edge of inner arch was located at 14 3/8" from center of oven. I calculated it by the Pythagorean theorem. a*a+b*b = c*c. c is the hypotenuse, which was 18" for me (radius of dome). b is the horizontal distance from the center point of the oven to the inside surface of the dome form. This is the spot where the inside bottom edge of the top dead center brick of the arch and the dome arch come together. a is the height of the inner arch opening adjusted by the height of the pivot point for the IT. In my case, my inner arch opening height was 12" and my IT was 1 1/8" off the floor. So a = 12-1 1/8= 10.875". solving b = sqrt (18*18-10.875*10.875) = 14.343 14 3/8 = 14.375 so we used 14 3/8". The front of the arch form was lined up to the where we wanted the front of the arch to be. We decided on about a 1" protrusion, the amount the arch "sticks out" from the outside of the oven dome.

Picture #2 - The white foam core piece in the middle of the arch, is the arch of the inside of the dome, with the cut off at 14 3/8" measured straight out from the center point of the dome. Some basic measurements could be from this mock up to help us determine how long the cut the arch bricks. It also confirmed the dimensions for the base (allowing room for the enclosure), the vent arch, and the landing area.


Picture #3 - We decided our protrusion, would be about 1" for the first, and increase as it goes up. The pink pieces of cardstock are cut like the floor layer of bricks surrounding the floor tiles will be (which is also the same as the sailor row of bricks). The cream colored piece of cardstock is how the base brick that the arch sits on will be cut. We decided on about a 1" protrusion, but I had made the cardstock "brick" at about 2 1/2" and then marked the 1" and 2" places to help us visualize.