Starting my build

[rodeair]

Re: Starting my build

Almondsurf .. A circular saw with a masonry blade works well cutting the brick. If you want the beveled edges and etc., I would recommend the wet saw. If you end up just cutting the bricks in half, you could get away with the circular saw. If that's the way you go, soak the bricks in water for awhile to cut down on the huge amount of dust kicked up. Make sure to use a respirator or at least a dust mask either way. Good luck, it's a lot of fun either way.
Leigh

[rodeair]

Re: Starting my build

Well, I'll tell you what .... after making my igloo, the last thing I would consider is making another one or two even over an 18 month period. You are truly a Fornobravo Il Pizzaiolo. If you ever get over here to waters that don't want to eat, bite, kill you...I would be honored to show you around. Cheers from the great Gulf Coast of Florida.

[Greenman]

Re: Starting my build

Rodeair - those 3 ovens were built over 18 months. I finished mine completely but the other two I built as far as the completed dome and flue gallery. The 3 to 4 months you took is probably a lot less than the average for most of the builds here.

I expect that makes you quite worthy indeed!

[rodeair]

Re: Starting my build

Steve,Greenman ...It took me 3 to 4 months to make my 42 incher. You made yours and 2 others?? I'm not worthy...I'm not worthy ........

[Greenman]

Re: Starting my build

You might consider purchasing a second hand wet saw and selling it when you are done with it. You should get close to your purchase price back and the job would be much easier. You would get to do it in your own time too.

I bought a good 14" bricksaw for $450 to do mine and ended up keeping it and building two more ovens for family and a friend. Being a hoarder of such things I now justify keeping it with the notion that it now owes me nothing even if I could sell it for $500 quite easily.

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

Thank you guys, I now know not to us the miter saw. Sounds like it would have been a mess, leaving me scratching my head midway through the job wondering how to do it differently.

I have now looked at tile saws at HF as well as other stores. I don't think I'll be buying one new. Those 10" saws are not cheep... and when else would I use the thing? I already tiled my walk-in shower, but did that with a borrowed, smaller tile saw. The rental shop near me has a brick saw with a diamond blade for $63 per day. Since I am only cutting the hearth bricks, I am confident I could cut those within one day... so I may just rent one?

One thought... When I tiled my shower, I put a granite slab (5'x1.5') on the top of the seat bench. We used a circular saw with a diamiond blade to cut the granite, running a little stream of water infront of the blade. No damage to the saw (that I know of), and cut fine. Wonder if this would work for the brick since it is much softer than granite?

of note... I still have my tarp over the pcrete base... It seems to be drying well without issues.

[SableSprings]

Re: Starting my build

I have a compound miter saw with which I am planning to use to cut the firebrick like this. What type of blade do I buy to cut the brick?
Or, do I just use a hand grinder, which I have, but again, not sure which blade to use. (I assume the miter saw would be easier to make accurate cuts with.)

I see DavidApp and I were both answering at the same time.

I agree that the miter saw will work better for your hearth cuts. You'll need to pick up a diamond saw blade for it to make the job relatively painless. Be aware that cutting dry will produce a large cloud of pretty fine brick dust. A wet saw is preferred (as David noted above), but use what you have. Make sure you wear a good dust mask, eye protection, and be very conscious of which way the wind is blowing...not going to make the family happy if you fill the house with brick dust . I don't know the diameter of your miter saw, I borrowed a 10" wet saw (and bought a new blade) so I could cut a brick with one pass. Prices will vary, but you should be able to find a reasonably good 10" blade for between $30-$50 if you shop around. You aren't going to be making a lot of cuts for the hearth, so you don't have to go top of the line.

The dust can be quite abrasive to the miter saw motor and parts (again, as David noted above), so be prepared to blow out the motor often or set up a good fan to keep the bulk of dust heading away from you as you cut. Some folks have reported that by wetting the bricks prior to cutting, the dust is reduced.

A grinder will also do the job, again get a diamond blade and use a mask. If you use a grinder, you'll want to set up something to hold the brick in place since you'll need both hands for the tool. Because you have relatively few cuts to make and since a grinder and its diamond blade are less expensive (more expendable), you might go this route simply to lower costs and save wear & tear on your miter saw (As David noted, it is a little more work to use a grinder...but if you're only cutting your hearth bricks...)

[DavidApp]

Re: Starting my build

Hello Almondsurf

You will need a Diamond Brick/Tile saw blade. The best way is to cut the brick wet because cutting makes a lot of dust.
The dust is very abrasive and will not do your compound miter saw much good. If you cut the bricks dry you need a dust mask and eye protection.

Look for a Harbor Freight 10" wet saw. You may find one used on e bay or Craigslist.

People have cut bricks with an angle grinder and diamond blade but that is hard work.

David

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

Those pictures are a great help. I have never heard of the elephant's foot analogy, but it makes sence. I like the idea of putting morter around edges of the pcrete, or I may wait to put some refractory cast material as a border. I may just slap it onto the side without a form as the pcrete is rough enough that it should hold / stick well to morter or cast material.

So... I have a dumb question... I have a compound miter saw with which I am planning to use to cut the firebrick like this. What type of blade do I buy to cut the brick?
Or, do I just use a hand grinder, which I have, but again, not sure which blade to use. (I assume the miter saw would be easier to make accurate cuts with.)

[SableSprings]

Re: Starting my build

Was I supposed to smash the pcrete down / pack it into the form??? I did a little but didn't want to brake all the little balls of perlite, so I did a light pack and screeded it with a 2x4.

Also, Do I need to have a concrete form bordering this pcrete layer (like in my design drawings), or can I just build right ontop of this w/o needing to hold the pcrete in place?

I think it looks good...and you did right with a light pack/tamp/screed. Do you remember hearing "the amount of pounds/sq inch exerted by a woman's high heel is far greater than that of an elephant's foot". Although you can push a finger into green perlcrete, you won't be able to push in a firebrick--same principle.

Because the compression is good but the strength is not, the edges will be a little "fragile". My brother-in-law simply dug out an inch around the edges of the perlcrete slab while it was still soft and filled it in with mortar. When we took off the form, the edges were much more durable that way. For the same reason, I would put a wedge/ring of mortar around your perlcrete after removing the form to protect it (as you'd planned) or just dig out the perimeter & fill with mortar as we did.

After the week of curing, we removed the form and put an inch of sand on top to help lay/tamp the hearth bricks flat & level. As I mentioned earlier, I wish I would have cut the outer hearth ring bricks to fit inside the dome instead of the dome being laid on top of the hearth perimeter. We did apply some mortar around the edges of the hearth bricks simply to contain the sand during the build.

Hopefully, the pictures will help explain this a bit more clearly.

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

By the way, this insulation material is really weird stuff...you'll think in two days that you screwed up and then in 4-6 days it firms up enough to remove the forms. It will always be crumbly, but it has great compression strength and will easily support the hearth bricks & dome casting--so, no worries.

I just read back through the posts and feel a little better about the compression issue. Thanks SableSprings, I hope your right.

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the tip on mixing the perlite and cement before adding the water. This stuff was SO much easier to mix than all of the readymix cement I've been mixing in the wheelbarrow. It was like shuffling around a wheelbarrow full of popcorn. It didn't help that it was a windy day though. I used a 5 gallon bucket to get the correct ratios (5:1 perlite:cement; 3:1 perlite:water). The form I made was out of 2x4's, pickets, and cardboard.

I made this insulation layer 6" thick x 40" wide: 32" inside the dome; 2" refractory cast layer; 2" ceramic blanket layer.

I layed this on Saturday, have it covered with a tarp (so it doesn't dry too fast). I checked it Sunday but wonder how it will hold the weight of the oven? It seems to compress without too much pressure.

Was I supposed to smash the pcrete down / pack it into the form??? I did a little but didn't want to brake all the little balls of perlite, so I did a light pack and screeded it with a 2x4.

Also, Do I need to have a concrete form bordering this pcrete layer (like in my design drawings), or can I just build right ontop of this w/o needing to hold the pcrete in place?

[cook4fun]

Re: Starting my build

almondsurf, it looks like a terrific and well thought out plan. Mine will be (hopefully) a lot simpler, using the FB metal stand, throw on some concrete, then vermicrete, FB CalSil, and then the oven, which is in pieces / parts that I will assemble, then cover with layers of vermicrete and finally stucco...I start in 3 months when I return to the USA !

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

The only issue with the grill method is the difficulty of placing the pizza exactly on the bricks (if your making 15" pizzas like I do).

I had to design a conveyor belt type peel that will allow me to place the pizza right where I want it. I actually decided to build this after a meltdown of sorts. My regular peel kept sticking or sliding the pizza off the end of the bricks. One night after a particularly difficult time, I smashed up the pizza, threw it into the garbage, stormed into the garage, and stayed there late into the night. I didn't emerge until the product was finished. Now I have a peel that works great every time.

I got the idea from the 'super peel'. I used a scrap piece of MDF I had laying around; I used duct cloth as the fabric (which is just like pastry cloth / found at Joann's); Shelf liner under the duck cloth (so it will slide easier and not get the wood wet); a dowel as a bar to hold onto while sliding the pizza on and off, office clips to hold the dowel and cloth in place.

I have a friend who is great at sewing, so I asked her to sew a loop to slide the dowel through, and sew around all edges so they don't fray (she called it some fancy edged sewing technique but I couldn't tell you what that is). The top side starts to blacken over time as the flour from the pizza burns from sliding the pizza into the bricks.

I thought I'd post this as it may help someone else get good oven type pizza without the oven. (this might even belong in another thread???)

(see prev. post for grilling the pizza)

[almondsurf]

Re: Starting my build

Interim Oven:

Last night was Pizza night at our house. I thought I'd post a few pics of my interim pizza oven that works quite well if you can't build an oven or if you just want "like oven" quality pizza. I've been doing this for at least 10 months. This grill method works a heck of a lot better than a stone in the standard in-home oven.

Below is 6 standard 1/2 fire bricks rested atop of my grill. Foil is placed in the back vent so that the heat will stay in the grill. When fully heated, I can sometimes get it to 650 degrees or so, but usually around 600. The pizza comes out great.

(see next post for peel)