Confused on footings???

[fullback66]

I have been looking at some of the ovens that people have built in this forum and had some questions. I noticed that alot of guys did not pour footings under their foundation. I live in the midwest where the ground freezes every winter. I thought you needed to have footings under a structure like a pizza oven. Before I build anything I need to know if a footing is necessary to prevent damage to foundation and oven.
Question:

1. Don't you need footings to support your oven?

2. Don't you need footing below the frost line to keep the foundation from moving and potential of cracking oven?

Maybe this subject was brought up before in this forum. I did not find it.
Please help me out.

fb66

[Ken524]

Re: Confused on footings???

1. Don't you need footings to support your oven?

You probably need a footer in Michigan to avoid frost heave.

2. Don't you need footing below the frost line to keep the foundation from moving and potential of cracking oven?

Yes, you probably should do this. I'm in Kentucky and really skimped on the footer. My excavation guy said I really didn't need more than 3-4" deep and 3" gravel. I trust him, I sure hope he's right!

[cvdukes]

Re: Confused on footings???

I poured an 8" deep foundation slab, with plenty of rebar and reinforcing wire here in South Carolina where our winters are much milder than yours. When you consider the effort and costs of the rest of your project, scrimping on the footing is false economy. You might get away with less, but peace of mind is priceless.

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Confused on footings???

Here are a few threads on footings:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/s...read-2240.html

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/f...heast-835.html

Drake

[dmun]

Re: Confused on footings???

Footings or floater? They are two entirely different things. An oven that's not too tall can be built on a slab on a WELL DRAINED base of crushed rock. It will float as a unit on top of the frost. A taller oven, or one that's part of a structure will need footings, below the frost line, and bigger than what's built on top of it. Fireplace code calls for a twelve inch thick slab below frost line, on solid soil, six inches beyond the fireplace in every direction. That's a lot of concrete. Both of these methods work. I think any kind of hybrid, like sonotubes below a slab, may be asking for trouble, because of the nature of frost heave.

[Ken524]

Re: Confused on footings???

Footings or floater? They are two entirely different things. An oven that's not too tall can be built on a slab on a WELL DRAINED base of crushed rock. It will float as a unit on top of the frost.

Ahhh.... I have a floater.

[fullback66]

Re: Confused on footings???

Drake good information,
I tend to build things that are a little (way) over built. The book case I built for my daughter could survive a bomb. I will do more searching on the frost level in my area. Make a drawing of the oven with foundation and footings. I will probable go beyond what I really need like I always do. It will last many years. I would really kick myself if the oven cracked because I skimped on the foudation.

Questions:
1) Do I have to pour the foundation when I am pouring the footings? This might be a multiple step process. I know it would be easier to do it all at once. Sometime time will not allow. Especially if I have to mix the concrete by hand in a wheelbarrow.

2) Will I need a building permit to build this oven? I may be building it in Michigan or Nebraska.(I need to look into this.) I am sure the state will say YES you need a permit so we can raise you property taxes. That is a good question: Did your oven raise your property taxes???

fb66

[dmun]

Re: Confused on footings???

The question about building permits depends on your local building inspector. In general, though, if the oven is freestanding, it's a backyard barbeque, and doesen't need a permit. If it's built into a structure, it's a fireplace, and all code applies.

[fullback66]

Re: Confused on footings???

dmun,
Thanks for the info. The oven would be freestanding.
fb66

[thebadger]

Re: Confused on footings???

Fullback66,

Re Footing. I was going to build on an 8 inch reinfored patio but decided against it because my soil isn't that good and i was worried about frost heave - but I tend to worry a lot. I live in Cin and our Frost line is 30". I dug down below the frost line and poured a footer. I then dry stacked my blocks 4 course under ground and 4 course above ground. I then poured every core reinforced with rebar - 32 bags of concrete. I just finished today. I'll post pictures once I start the actuall oven next spring.

Re Permit/Zoning - I didn't want to know but thought I should check since you can't "hide" an oven outside. My buildining dept said no permit necessary since they consider it a type of outdoor bbq. I checked with zoning and since the don't have a "wfpo" on their books I "tecnhically" could build it right on the property line. I would probably check if I were you just in case.

Good luck.
thebadger

[fullback66]

Re: Confused on footings???

badger,
That is good information. I would like to see pictures of the footing and foundation. Did you pour the footings yourself? (wheelbarrow and concrete) or did you have a cement truck pour the footings? What are the specs? How wide did you make the footings and how deep? Did you put anything in the footings rebar or wire mesh?

thanks,
fb66

[thebadger]

Re: Confused on footings???

Fullback66,

I dug down well over 30" deep by 12 inches wide (check the frost line in your area). I then poured a 6 inch footer min - maybe 8 in some spots in order to get it level. Took about 16 bags of concrete ~3 hours with 2 helpers. I put in two pieces of rebar on each footer run. After the pour set, I just dry stacked and back filled. So about 4 course are underground and the 4 coures (which you see in all the pictures) are above ground. I did tie rebar from the footers up into the some of the cores. I don't think this is going anywhere. My nieghbors really think I'm building a bomb shelter.

I could have called a concrete truck but wasn't sure when I could pour due to work and the cold weather coming in. This method (80 lb bags) gave me more flexiblity. I'm having trouble reducing my pic size but I'll try to post later. The one pic I could upload is the "hole" for the footer.

Thanks
Dick

[fullback66]

Re: Confused on footings???

The picture looks fine. How did you get the founadtion level so when you start stacking it would be level on top? Does footing self level? Because if the footing is not level and you start stacking the top layer may not be level.

-Do you morter the bottom row to get the blocks even before you stack the rest?

Did you have rebar sticking up from the footing? You stack your blocks over the rebar so it will be all one piece? If that made any sense?

When I build mine it is not going anywhere. Sorry for so many questions.

Do you have more pictures?

fb66

[thebadger]

Re: Confused on footings???

FB66,

"How did you get the founadtion level so when you start stacking it would be level on top? Does footing self level? Because if the footing is not level and you start stacking the top layer may not be level."

I tried to get the trench as level as I could. I built and leveled a 2x4 grid that I put over the trench. I leveled this to my patio/where I wanted the walls to be. I then built a very long screed to the right depth I needed. I just poured in the concrete and moved the screed along the top which transfered the depth to the bottom.

"Do you morter the bottom row to get the blocks even before you stack the rest?"

I bought a bag of morter but I didn't need to use it! Not bragging (probably just lucky) but when I was done I'm probably only an 1/8 "off level" with my top course of blocks. This process worked MUCH better than I thought.

Did you have rebar sticking up from the footing? You stack your blocks over the rebar so it will be all one piece? If that made any sense?

Yes I put 1 piece in each corner. I wanted to put more but I wasn't sure where my blocks would end up. I did drill down in the footer a little and put extra rebar in. In total I have 10 pieces of rebar extending from the footer to the top. I'll then use these to tie into when I pour my pad on top.

When I build mine it is not going anywhere. Sorry for so many questions.

I agree, don't worry about the questions. I figured out how to adjust my picture size - hope they help.

Dick

[fullback66]

Re: Confused on footings???

Badger,
Your jig to even out the concrete footings is really cool. Nice job with only a 1/8" differance at the top. I suppose I could put a little moter between some bricks to even out if I were off. You really helped me out. Now keep taking pictures so we can see the process.

What kind of drain system do you have? Do you even need one? Pea Gravel on the bottom before concrete footings?


Looks good.
fb66