Indoor pizza oven feasibility

[Alomran]

Great idea! Many thanks for taking the trouble to dig the photos. I think I will try to work out the same mechanism if I can find a thick stainless steel

[david s]

Here you go.

[david s]

A good solution is to have a flip up stainless shelf attached to the oven. That way you can use the oven both ways. If I get time I can search for a pic of one in a recent build.

[Alomran]

Do you think it is advisable to have a platform outside the door oven given the length of distance it will constitute to the centre of the oven?

[david s]

Would you advise to have a marble platform or a landing plate outside the oven door to use for p[lacing food there?
If the oven is approx 2m in diameter, adding the smoke chamber which could be around 46cm, won't that be adding more distance between the user and the centre of the oven. Also, The length of pizza peel stick is going to be a problem!

Marble does not like heat. therefore not an ideal material to put close to the entry. Polished concrete, brick or tiles would be a better option.

[david s]

Just to clarify, when you say oven size being the diameter of the oven's footprint (in relation to dtermining flue size) are you referring to the inside diameter of the oven?

Yes it's the inside diameter. The draft ,pull or power of the flue is determined by its diameter and height, the diameter having a stronger effect.
The flue gallery can be made reasonably shallow if cast in refractory or fabricated in sheet metal. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do this with brick units. Vacuum cleaner heads rely on a similar principle where the width of the entry is wide but quite shallow. This means the area of the intake is about the same as the cross sectional area of the pipe. But for an oven you want the bottom area of the flue gallery quite generous but at the same time quite shallow. Think of a funnel being squashed flat.

[david s]

[QUOTE=Alomran;n419991]

These pics show an old oven in Penzano, Italy that utilises a fireplace to draw away the smoke. Most kitchens in old castles use the same system.




Look at the amazing length for the pizza peel on the right hand side, it must be at least 3 meters long! the oven must be gigantic!
I was in Penzano only 4 months ago.

My apologies, I did not label the pics in that post, and that may have caused you confusion. I have now done so.That particular pic was not the one in Penzano, I think it was in Chenonceaux, Loire river France. Although the peel on the right is very long, the oven was not. I suspect someone mistook it for an oven peel but it was more likely a barge pole/rudder used when transporting goods on the river as Chenonceaux straddles the river.

[Alomran]

Would you advise to have a marble platform or a landing plate outside the oven door to use for p[lacing food there?
If the oven is approx 2m in diameter, adding the smoke chamber which could be around 46cm, won't that be adding more distance between the user and the centre of the oven. Also, The length of pizza peel stick is going to be a problem!

[Alomran]

[QUOTE=david s;n419688]

These pics show an old oven in Penzano, Italy that utilises a fireplace to draw away the smoke. Most kitchens in old castles use the same system.




Look at the amazing length for the pizza peel on the right hand side, it must be at least 3 meters long! the oven must be gigantic!
I was in Penzano only 4 months ago.

[Gulf]

The "vent landing arch" opening needs to be larger than the inner arch to allow the easy placement and removal of an insulated door. I think that an oven's vent landing should be at least deep enough to fit the flue's diameter. Casting the vent will give you a little advantage over us that build with brick. Just design a smoke gathering chamber like I mentioned above. Some, just put a hole in the top of the vent arch form for the flue. That may be okay for an outside oven but, I wouldn't want to chance it with an inside oven.

[DanielF]

Continued from above.

Sorry about getting back to this so late. One of the other key things is a good smoke collection chamber to transition from the entry to the flue. It should be a gradual transition. The cross view would look like an upside down funnel.

Other than this there are no other rules that would affect draft, i.e. the width or depth of the vent landing? Also, regarding the relationship between the outer vent landing arch and the oven opening itself - are there any rules for this relationship? Does the vent landing outer arch and oven opening need to be of equal height, or does the vent landing outer arch need to be lower in height?
To clarify, if it makes any difference, I'll be casting this oven.

Thanks, Daniel

[DanielF]

The formula for the opening of the oven to the flue size is not used as we use for fireplaces. There have been some solid performing recommendations for oven size to flue size. Oven size being the diameter of the ovens foot print. Also, I'm referiring only to the Pompeii design. I believe that a 5" flue is recommended for up to a 32" oven. A 6" for up to a 36" oven and an 8" for up to a 42" oven. I will invite any corrections or recommendations to those. My oven is a 44" and I have an 8" square all masonry flue

I don't believe that smoke spillage into the room for an oven should be no more of a proroblem than it would be for a wood burning fireplace. There are many wood burning fireplaces that are not in use today because the owners do not know how to start a fire imo. As I mentioned above, preheating the flue is one of the key things to always do before lighting the fire a fireplace or in an oven. There are some other key points that I want to bring out after a nights rest. I go to bed when the chickens do .

Just to clarify, when you say oven size being the diameter of the oven's footprint (in relation to dtermining flue size) are you referring to the inside diameter of the oven?

[Gulf]

Continued from above.

Sorry about getting back to this so late. One of the other key things is a good smoke collection chamber to transition from the entry to the flue. It should be a gradual transition. The cross view would look like an upside down funnel.

[david s]

I build small (21”) cast ovens primarily to cut down manufacturing costs. But operation is largely down to management. My mobile version is used for demonstration and hire. I regularly cater for parties of between 30-50 guests and in a 2 hr period can crank out around 50 pizzas, prepping cooking and cutting all the pizzas on my own. If everyone shares whatever comes out of the oven then satisfaction is guaranteed. Individual pizzas per person would not work.

A small oven oven is far more economical with fuel. If you have a large one you won’t be firing it up on a Fri night for 3 pizzas for the family, but you can easily if your oven is small. Likewise if you want to cook bread 3 times a week.
There are times when I wished my oven were bigger, but many more that I’m happy it’s small. From the kind of cooking you intend, I’d suggest around 30” would suit you, but certainly nothing bigger than 36.

[DanielF]

For a Pompeii style oven, that is an oven with a flue at the front, it is a cross draft system which requires good smoke flow when the oven is cold and the cool flue is not creating a draft. In fact if you visit Pompeii the large oven at the bakery has such a cross draft flue, but in operation was probably never cold, being fired every day. Taking a decent look around there are many smaller ovens in private homes there where the ovens were much smaller and had updraft systems. That is, a flue rising from the apex of the dome in much the same way as ancient Roman kilns. Having built one of these kilns, I also built my first oven using the same system. One big advantage is that it draws beautifully from cold and presumably was the preferred option in Ancient Rome for private homes. Very annoying to fill your room with smoke. A second advantage is that there is no deep tunnel to have to work past creating much better access. The down side is that the heat jumps straight to the flue so there is a higher fuel consumption.

These pics show an old oven in Penzano, Italy that utilises a fireplace to draw away the smoke. Most kitchens in old castles use the same system.

Thanks for the info. Helps a great deal.

I've noticed in some of your replies that you've built and use smaller diameter ovens. I currently make pizza at least once a week for my family of 4, and I make bread 2-3 times weekly. When I make pizzas I'm cooking 3-4 16" pies which is an ample amount for my family for dinner and next day lunches. Bread is 5 one pound loaves. This is in my gas range, of course.

I'm wondering what is a good balance of size of pizza oven that would enable me to cook the amounts I have been cooking without being oversized. In other words, I'd prefer the smallest size oven that would fit the needs described but not so small that fitting a small fire and pizza on the cooking hearth would be difficult (your experience/suggestion of size of pizzas in relation to diameter of oven would be greatly appreciated and the most important aspect of what I'm trying to understand)
Thanks very much, Daniel