firebrick arch vent question

[chertupper]

dampers and doors

Wade, hi.

We are total newbies at the forum. Hope we're not breaking etiquette to directly ask you a question, rather than posting it. Anyway, saw your comments ...
Re: firebrick arch vent question ...

and want to ask your opinion of dampers and doors. We're building a 42" oven for our cafe in Arizona and are about to order the chimney pipe and oven door.

Do you think installing a damper is a good idea? Or rather would it interfere with the air flow?

Also, can you point us in the direction of some information about oven door installation and how it impacts what you can do with the oven? We want to bake bread as well as pizza and heard that you put doors in both the inner and outer arches of the entry tunnel.

Thank you in advance for your reply, Cheryl & Gary

I doesn't matter much as to how high the arches relative to each other. It is more importantt to get the dimesions and "flow" of the hot gas correct.

As a precaution I made my outside arch 1/2" lower than the entry, but it turned out insignificant. IMHO you want the chimney opening in the arch as wide as possible and no sharp corners. You want to make it easy for the smoke to flow out and into the chimney, so corner cut or round off the hot side of the chimney entry opening. The chimney opening in the arch should be larger area than the area of the the chimney itself as you want to increase the gas velocity which decreases air pressure to increase draw. You want to make a smooth path for exhaust flow, sharp corners creates turbulence which slows flow. The taller the chimney the better the draw, but not by a large number in our application.

You can also just set a pipe over a square hole and it will work. But if you decide you want to have the best drawing chimney you can build, then like the rest of the oven it will take some planning and work as well.

[gjbingham]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

David S. - I concur completely. Master Christo's teachings inspire us to embrace our smoke stains. I finally relaxed and have only cleaned mine once, and that might be the last time.

[david s]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

Regarding smoke stains on the outer arch, if you are doing mosaic tiles then use glossy tiles and a black grout. Any smoke staining comes of really easily. I think after you've had an oven and done lots of cooking in it then the "used look" becomes part of the whole experience.

[gjbingham]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

David S.
Great description of overfueling the fire and resulting smoke problem. Very accurate synopsis.

[mrgweeto]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

Thanks again everyone. Don't remember reading this much when I was in college......actually didn't read anything as interesting as this in college. I plan on taking a lot of pictures as we begin. I was thinking of producing a video (what we do ) but I would spend more time on the video than the oven and I WANT THAT FIRST PIZZA SOON. I'm thinking that the hardest part is going to pour the cement (most bull work) even though we are getting an industrial powered cement mixer from a friend. I will have to get some youth to help.
Thanks again

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

I too was very concerned about smoke stains of the front of the oven, so I cast a vent to allow a larger smoke collection area below the chimney. I think it helps a lot...

My vent stuff starts about here:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/drakes-38-oven-633-2.html#post3690

[mrgweeto]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

Thank you for the great advice. We were even thinking at one point to make a step back smoke ledge that you have in a conventioanl fireplace. I do think we are over thinking this. The bottom line is we want the oven to be that best it can be and our first pizza in one hand with a glass of home made wine in the other by Memorial Day. I'm sure I'll be asking a lot more questions in the coming months.
Thank you,
G

[david s]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

After firing my mobile oven at a market where I was next to a stallholder selling baby clothes, I learned that it is quite possible to fire an oven with virtually no smoke. Th trick is to be extremely vigilant to make sure there is always a flame, start with very little paper and only add sufficient fuel for the flame to consume. The natural tendency is to load the chamber with much more fuel than the fire can cope with. Potters call this a reducing atmosphere and it produces unburnt fuel (smoke) The resulting fire is actually not as hot, like a car running on a rich fuel mixture. In practice who really has the time and vigilance to monitor their fire this closely ? But it can be done. The top down method of lighting also produces very little smoke for the same reasons.

[gjbingham]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

I made my outer arch an inch lower than the interior angle iron. I do get smoke out the front of the oven every time I throw on a new log. Once it gets burning well, the smoking stops. The inch difference in heights didn't matter at all.

I think the problem in my case is a combination of a couple of problems:

- The angle iron at the top of the dome opening allows smoke to spill out across the entire surface of the iron. I assume that an arched opening would result in most of the smoke exiting the dome at the height of the arch instead of across the entire width of the opening, and would direct the majority of the smoke directly into the vent opening.

- My vent opening, while built according to the plans, seems too narrow for the width of the dome opening, which allows smoke to spill out and run along the sides of the entryway ceiling, all the way out to the outer arch before the draft of the chimney starts to pull it back toward the vent. Invariably, some finds its way out the front. I think that a cast vent place atop vertical entryway walls would be a much better choice to combine with an angle iron type dome opening.

Regardless, the pizza's are great! I'm happy!

[wlively]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

I doesn't matter much as to how high the arches relative to each other. It is more importantt to get the dimesions and "flow" of the hot gas correct.

As a precaution I made my outside arch 1/2" lower than the entry, but it turned out insignificant. IMHO you want the chimney opening in the arch as wide as possible and no sharp corners. You want to make it easy for the smoke to flow out and into the chimney, so corner cut or round off the hot side of the chimney entry opening. The chimney opening in the arch should be larger area than the area of the the chimney itself as you want to increase the gas velocity which decreases air pressure to increase draw. You want to make a smooth path for exhaust flow, sharp corners creates turbulence which slows flow. The taller the chimney the better the draw, but not by a large number in our application.

You can also just set a pipe over a square hole and it will work. But if you decide you want to have the best drawing chimney you can build, then like the rest of the oven it will take some planning and work as well.

[mrgweeto]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

David,
Good thought. Never thought about that. Of course the smoke can also be a result of how one and where one starts the fire. In the case of starting a fire in the fireplace I have always lit a peace of newspaper and held it right under the damper to get a draft going and that eliminated any puff backs or smoke inside my room. Don't see why that wouldn't work in this case. Also not trying to put 2 weeks worth of paper and a cord of wood at one time would help out as well. Like I mentioned, or maybe I didn't, my brother and I are pretty handy having been involved in building several homes and doing masonry projects. This is a new experience and I welcome all the advice. We are very coachable. Thank you for the input so far. Oh did I mention my nephew is going to the CIA to become a bread and pastry chef and just finished his bread making course. Needless to say we are quite anxious to get this project going once we get warmed up here.
G

[Les]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

If your outer arch is lower than the inner one isn't that going to create problems getting the door to fit?

Kinda - I had to make my door 2 inches thick instead of 4, so I could tilt it to get it out.

Les...

[david s]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

If your outer arch is lower than the inner one isn't that going to create problems getting the door to fit?

[james]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

Hi guys,

I moved this to getting started. It seems like a good spot. I also left a redirection notice at the original spot.

Keep going.
James

[Les]

Re: firebrick arch vent question

G,

You are correct, some are taking that into account. I made my inside and outside arch the same height. I dropped my decorative arch down about an inch to help keep the smoke from exiting the front.

Les...