Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

[ptone]

I'm torn between these two. I'm leaning to the smaller. The idea of a quick fire time appeals to me as I'd be happier if we use it more often for the family than worried about dealing with large parties.

Size and cost are the other reasons to go small (have a tight space)

If you have either of these, can you give me your input?

Esp if you have the Giardino70 - have you felt like it has been big enough, or do you wish you went a little larger. Are you seeing the advertised fire times of 25 minutes? (nearly half that of the G90)

Many thanks,

-Preston

[david s]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

If a manufacturer claims that their oven can reach pizza cooking temps in 25 mins then the walls must be extremely thin. most ovens take an hour and a half to reach pizza temps. I can fire my oven for only 25 mins if I only want to cook a couple of loaves of bread. Extra thermal mass in the walls is Actually a benefit because it's better for doing roasts and bread. the extra mass gives you extended cooking time with greater heat storage giving you a more versatile oven.

[james]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Preston,

James here. There are a couple of questions you can ask yourself that might help make the decision easier.

What type of cooking are you going to be doing? Larger parties? Big, complicated meals? Lots of retained heat baking and roasting?

The Giardino ovens are based on the same components as the Primavera ovens, so you can see the oven oven performance on our YouTube videos. In fact, the videos were done in a 24" P60, and the P70 is 4" larger. This is the oven that Peter Reinhart has at home and he has said that he has been very happy and pleasantly surprised with its heat retention.

The Casa2G ovens are thicker in the dome and floor and larger. You can do more in the oven (more things at the same time) and the ovens hold heat longer.

The Giardino and Casa2G are insulated the same way.

If you have the space, the cost between the Giardino70 and the Casa2G80 (or 90) is not really large, and you will be able to do more with it.

If budget or space is a serious issue, you will really enjoy the Giardino70.

You can't go wrong! :-)
James

[Stan]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Hi Preston,

Stan here, Primavera 60 owner. This is essentially a fully completed version of the Giardino.

Here's the skinny: Spend the money and buy the Casa2G unless space really is a limiting factor. If so, spend the money on the larger Giardino.

I LOVE my Primavera, and bought it because I'm going to need to move it some day. If I didn't have to move it, experience tells me that I'd rather have a 36" oven. The Giardino wasn't around when I bought the Primavera, but I would have bought one of those instead if I knew what I know now.

The P60 (and likely the Giardino) will go from 0 to pizza temps in less than 30 minutes with very little wood. It's perfect for that, and perfect for small gatherings. However, one pizza at a time is a huge bottleneck to feeding a large crowd. The P70 can do 2, and the Casa can do 3. Capacity matters.

Furthermore, if you're trying to save money on an oven, then splurge on insulation. My P60's heat retention just isn't what I had hoped for. It's not FB's fault; I simply had unreal expectations for such a small oven. I can't cook with retained heat the next day. Period. In order to keep the size manageable, FB had to limit the insulation, and that hurts the oven performance. If you get a Giardino, insulate the heck out of it. I've even considered chipping off the stucco/plaster from the P60 so I could insulate it more.

Buy the Casa. If not the Casa, then the larger P70. Insulate the living hell out of it, and don't worry about fire-up times. Once you light the match, you can walk away.

If you've got enough thermal mass/insulation, you can come back for 2 days and cook with retained heat. A slow firing time for 3 days of cooking is a good trade.

Stan

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

So i am getting the Giardino70.Are you saying i should add more insulation to it while i am building it than whats provided? and that will retain more heat for longer period?

Sorry for the dumb question.I am new to this.

[Cdubs]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Hey Rossano,

If you decide to buy the Giardino you do not need to insulate it more. It is perfectly insulated for any type of cooking you may want to do. Unless you were going to run it for commercial use (which it is not intended for) then you will be fine.

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Thanks cdubs for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated.

[HeidiL2011]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Hello Rossano,

The Giardino comes with the amount of insulation that you need for this oven, there's no need to add more. Enjoy and if you have any questions let me know.

Heidi
Forno Bravo

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Thanks Heidi. Why are some people saying to add more?

[Cdubs]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

You CAN add more insulation but you dont have to. The great part abount purchasing that oven is that it comes with everything you need to begin using it. Adding additional insulation will help once you get into cooking outside of pizza, but will also add to heat up time and wood consuption.

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Well I would eventually want to bake bread in it. And a small roast now and then. But how would adding more insulation to the outside of it cause longer heat up times. Wouldn't the added insulation just hold the heat in longer?? Or am I missing something??

Thanks

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

My main use would be for pizza. And bread now and then.

[james]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Hi guys,

James here. There are some common misunderstandings about oven mass and insulation thickness.

It is true that a well insulated oven retains heat better than a poorly insulated oven -- because a poorly insulated oven loses heat through the insulation to the outer world. But all of the Forno Bravo ovens are well insulated, so adding more insulation to an oven with the mass of the Giardino would be overkill. It really would add very, very little benefit. As a general rule, ceramic insulation is roughly twice as efficient as loose vermiculite insulation. So if you calculate that in the past many ovens were insulated with 4" of vermiculite, you can see that the 3" of ceramic insulation that comes with the Giardino does a much better job of insulating the oven in less space.

For backyard pizza and roasting either the Giardino or Casa2G would be perfect. That is exactly what they are designed to do. The Casa2G ovens are bigger and heavier, they can do more (and they cost a little more) -- so really the choice is yours.

The question of oven mass also comes up. In general, the heavier/thicker the dome, the longer the oven takes to heat up and the longer it retains heat (although the quality of the refractory also helps with heat up time). Both the Giardino and Casa2G balance heat up time with heat retention for typical backyard cooking. The heat up times are really good, and I think you will be very impressed with the heat retention time for roasting and baking.

Again, the Casa2G is a little thicker and it will retain heat better for baking and roasting, but the Giardino is really very impressive.

If money and space are not an issue -- you can definitely do more with a Casa2G. But that doesn't mean that the Giardino isn't a beast!

I hope this helps.

James

[rossano]

Re: Casa 2G 90 vs Giardino 70

Thanks James for your explanation. I was ready to
Put more insulation.

Your clarification helped out a lot. For me, it more of a movability than cost. I would jump up to the casa, but I don't plan on staying in the home I'm in now forever and I wanna put my Giardino70 on a mobile stand so I can "easily" take it to my next home. With the casa, it would be too heavy in my opinion to do so with ease.

Thanks again.

I can't wait to start building my giardino. It should be
Good fun building.