Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

[Polo]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

Most wheelbarrows are in the 6 CuFt range, it takes 4 CuFt of oak to get mine to pizza temp in an hour and a half, and can then bake around 8 loaves of bread (2 batches) the next day.

Once again, it is difficult to compare apples to apples. I'm certainly not a mathematical genious or thermodynamics expert, and can only give information from practical experience.
My oven would achieve approximately in the range of 400 to 450 F with the amount of wood you specify. I am using wild cherry that has been split and cured for about 5 months (burnable, but certainly not completely cured). Another load of the same size would bring me close to pizza temperatures (800 to 900F). After pizza, the oven is capable of at least 24 loaves of bread (two batches of 12 loaves, each loaf two pounds), maybe more, but we are talking practical experience.
Four days later I am making beef jerky (200 F - a little warm for jerky, but it comes out OK)

The bricks and cladding do a very decent job of returning the enery that is supplied. I supply more energy and get more back in return.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

Yes it is impossible to compare, really. An hour and a half gets me to 1000 degrees, which it will hold with a side fire for hours (not that that is the way I cook, but it would). After my normal 6-8 pizzas, I door it off, and it is 450-500 24 hours later, and it takes 4-5 days to reach ambient temps. Right now the oven is almost 20 degrees COOLER than ambient temps!

[Polo]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

Yes it is impossible to compare, really. An hour and a half gets me to 1000 degrees, which it will hold with a side fire for hours (not that that is the way I cook, but it would). After my normal 6-8 pizzas, I door it off, and it is 450-500 24 hours later, and it takes 4-5 days to reach ambient temps. Right now the oven is almost 20 degrees COOLER than ambient temps!

LOL, that insulation works both ways I guess.

[Neil2]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

"it generally takes me 4 to 5 hours to saturate my oven"

You need to burn up forests to keep an Alan Scott design oven working. They are just not nearly efficient as the basic forno bravo design. Having the insulation under the structural slab is a major design flaw.

[jowi68]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

hi everyone! i am new here. i need someone who can provide me a detailed plan in making a brick oven with complete bill of materials and procedure on how this can be made.
we are willing to pay. we need a formal design for this.

i am from the philippines and i would prefer the designer to be here in manila also so we can meet and discuss the details.

you can directly contact me in my e-mail: jowiblessing@yahoo.com

[Ethel]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

We have a situation where we have many very, very large downed trees on this property and a forest surrounding it. Literally, I will spend the rest of my life trying to clear our property, and I'm not an old lady. In this situation, and the one I left in Upstate New York, this kind of oven provides an opportunity to make very good use of this natural resource that would otherwise be rotting on the ground.

I believe your point is that in a situation where firewood is a scarce resource, an Alan Scott oven may not be the one that is best suited for the job.

How one chooses to use the oven is another variable in the equation. Having insulation under the slab is desirable if you plan to bake successive loads of bread over the course of a whole day. These ovens are used in many bakeries where that is precisely the goal. The design promotes efficiency and conservation of heat, not only in the floor but also in the mass. These aren't pizza ovens, but they can be used to make pizza. They certainly aren't the sharpest tool in the shed for pizza making, as you point out.

[Polo]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

We have a situation where we have many very, very large downed trees on this property and a forest surrounding it. Literally, I will spend the rest of my life trying to clear our property, and I'm not an old lady. In this situation, and the one I left in Upstate New York, this kind of oven provides an opportunity to make very good use of this natural resource that would otherwise be rotting on the ground.

I believe your point is that in a situation where firewood is a scarce resource, an Alan Scott oven may not be the one that is best suited for the job.

How one chooses to use the oven is another variable in the equation. Having insulation under the slab is desirable if you plan to bake successive loads of bread over the course of a whole day. These ovens are used in many bakeries where that is precisely the goal. The design promotes efficiency and conservation of heat, not only in the floor but also in the mass. These aren't pizza ovens, but they can be used to make pizza. They certainly aren't the sharpest tool in the shed for pizza making, as you point out.

I am relatively sure that wasn't the point Neil2 was trying to make.

I agree with you 100% Ethel. I am in the same situation, roughly 76 acres of wooded ground yields no shortage of fire wood. The idea of building an Alan Scott oven primarily for cooking pizzas would be kind of like taking a locomotive to a drag race.

[Neil2]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

You would have a more efficient design (for bread or pizza) if the insulation is between the slab and the hearth bricks. If more thermal mass is desired, simply increase the thickness of hearth bricks.

Heating up the structural slab is nonsensical. Heat is lost to the structure not retained and used to cook with. In addition, portland based concretes heated beyond 600 F start to lose strength. Some reinforcing steels will also lose strength with heats as low as 600 F.

[Ethel]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

There is a layer of vermiculate above the slab but below the hearth in my oven.

[Neil2]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

Sorry Ethel, I misunderstood.

Some of the earlier Alan Scott designs had the insulation under the slab not between the slab and the hearth bricks.

[Lburou]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

There is a layer of vermiculate above the slab but below the hearth in my oven.

Happy to hear that!

The early fornobravo pompeii oven plans had the insulation under the hearth slab....The latest plans have insulation on top of the hearth slab, like yours. A much more efficient design than the earlier plans. Glad to hear you have done so well in the construction of your beautiful oven.

[Polo]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

There is a layer of vermiculate above the slab but below the hearth in my oven.

Ethel,
I would be interested to hear how well your oven retains heat. Theory is all well and good, but I would like to base some conclusions on real life experience comparing the two different designs. My oven includes the extra mass of the hearth support slab with the insulation layer below it.

[Ethel]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

I wish I could provide more detail. The oven is at a weekend property so I haven't been able to monitor it very well so far. We fire it up on Friday night and Saturday morning and then cook pretty much all day Saturday. We get it up very high (800 hearth, 400-500 inner mass, 200-300 outer mass) and then we have to leave on Sunday. Between Saturday night and Sunday we close down oven and the heat stabilizes throughout the mass. I tried to put a pot of beans in overnight and I just succeeded in frying them. There was way too much heat at that point.

So bear with me. We will spend a week up there sometime this fall and I'll get a much better sense of it. I'll also start baking bread so I will have to pay closer attention. It's a brand new oven and I've been away from brick oven stewardship for eight years.

[Polo]

Re: Alan Scott "Artisan" Brick Oven

Fair enough Ethel. My oven is fairly new (9 months) as well and seems to behave much as yours does in regards to heating and holding heat. Fired up to 900F for pizza last night and temps this morning were at 550F. I am interested to see if there is really such a difference in results. I'll ask again later in the fall if you don't mind.