next step after insulating

[cecilB]

Re: next step after insulating

Yes! This is the problem: "the glut of options!"
I would love it if someone would just tell me exakitakily what to use next - names, places to get it, how much, how to apply...with no options.
It's starting to sound like child raising!

Cecelia

[fxpose]

Re: next step after insulating

Yeah, I was being pretty precise in my previous answer. While the vermicrete is not required to make the oven cook properly (assuming you have sufficient ceramic insulation), it is nevertheless a stretch to call it optional if you build an igloo enclosure because you've got to mold and shape the exterior appearance somehow, and if not vermicrete, then how? So yeah, it isn't very optional.

Yes, thanks. The only 'problem' area is the first few vertical inches up starting from the base of the dome. I was thinking of molding chicken wire over 3" of blanket and building up layers of stucco. The rest of the dome has plenty of space for a layer of vermicrete over the blanket which I intend to use to sculpt the dome with.

Sorry Cecilia, I didn't mean to hijack your thread with my inquiries, but I thought it was somewhat relevant.

George

[kebwi]

Re: next step after insulating

We're not going to do that because there are genuine options in that multiple approaches will result in a successful final product. I agree, it is incredibly frustrating from your point of view; I've been there several times in the last few months.

1. Finish the brick (you're there already).
2. Wrap the ceramic insulation on.
3. Fire the oven once or twice pretty hot, you'll see a ton of steam.
4. Apply some combination of lathe/chickenwire/aluminum foil (I'll leave it to others to prescribe this step since I have no direct experience with it).
5. Add the vermicrete layer.
6. Fire the oven a few more times, try to get that moisture out of there before the final render.
7. Apply some form of stucco, namely: conventional stucco or surface bonding cement. Both are available at box stores, although I had to special order the SBC. If you use SBC, add acrylic fortifier.
8. Apply optional final weatherproofing (optional in that SBC may not require it, but stucco probably does).

Something along those lines.

Does that help?

[kebwi]

Re: next step after insulating

Do you have a Lowe's or a Home Depot to rely on? I hate to admit it, but I used them a lot. As for vermiculite, get the four-cubic foot bags from a garden center, or possibly from a cement/concrete supply in your area. Stucco products and Quikrete SBC products are available at Lowe's/Home Depot (Depends on your area to some extent).

[RTflorida]

Re: next step after insulating

Not to be argumentative, but it has been noted on several other threads that any aluminum foil product WILL corrode/disolve if put in contact with uncured cement based products...this would include perlcrete, vermicrete, and any form of stucco.
These radiant barriers may very well be "state of the art", but they don't have unlimited uses. I could not find specifics on the uses of the product listed, but it is easily confirmed that foil reacts negatively to uncurred cement.
I did find one name brand manufacturer of foil radiant barriers that specifically states to not place in contact with uncurred concrete. I believe it was Radiant Guard (radiantguard.com)
Cecelia, save your money and save time.....skip the foil.

RT

[cecilB]

Re: next step after insulating

Yes, that helps - very clear and simple - Thanks!
Yes, I have relied on Lowe's quite a bit, and our garden center for the big things of vermiculite.

I don't mind the highjacking - I'm learning a ton! Thanks, everyone. Keep it coming!

Cecelia

[100million]

Re: next step after insulating

Oh my!
I'm not really confused...yet - Just ignorant on this stuff...Ok, I looked at your build - what are the "pins" in the insulation blanket?
I will be telling my son what he needs to do, and I have to sound like I know what I'm talking about! ha ha.
I also looked at the alum foil. Funny. I thought you were just talking about what are the "pins" in the insulation blanket?
Is that something I can get at lowes?

So the mesh or lathe goes OVER the foil?
and then after that goes some verm./portland. ( I feel like an old pro at that!) and the mixing of mortar mix.
Anyway....THEN stucco - call a stucco company and see if I can get some of their leftovers? We just bought four bags at Lowes yesterday, but I can return those!
I wonder how many stucco people there are in this neck of the woods!

By the way, your oven build is so nice looking! I would LOVE to start over. heh heh heh - but I'll have a chance whenever we redo this kitchen!

Yes, and I was looking at the chimney pipe - we're doing a 42" oven - the 36" x 8" at Forno Bravo for 230 bucks?!?!?! They have what seems to be exactly the same stuff at Lowes for 97.00 so I bought that one - but I need a cap. I was referred to a local HVAC company for one....I suppose I could also get the alum foil there and tape?

This is all new thinking to me, I just want you to know. I was just figuring out the brick cutting and laying and was enjoying it when winter came...and then an expecting baby in July! So I've been rather out of commision and have been tying to focus on more...."ladylike" things like, ahem, sewing and stuff....ha ha. Now, although I won't be WORKING on the oven, I have to be able to TELL my son with conviction what he has to do! And I want to kinda hurry up so I can practice making pizzas and have it down for 3 of my kids graduations at the end of the month. Is it possible?
sigh.

That's why I seem confused!
Thanks,
Cecelia

what are the "pins" in the insulation blanket?
This is to hold the inner chicken fence 16 gauge wire to the outer lathe and not crush the insulation (you have to remember my oven is for mobile and needs structure to hold together from road viberation

alum foil ---- I told you how to get it for free or little cost

but I need a cap. ask lowes they will order it in for you SPECIAL ORDER

....I suppose I could also get the alum foil there and tape?

YES THIS IS WHERE TO GET THE STUFF take a picture from the internet and he will know EXACTLY what you want

And I want to kinda hurry up so I can practice making pizzas and have it down for 3 of my kids graduations at the end of the month. Is it possible?
......Yes it is to put the foil over the insulation 1 hour wire lathe 2 hrs vecmiculite will take another 2 hours and coating with stucco is about 1-2 hours.... cutting the lathe to make it look like a doom is the hardest part of everything

I hope this helps and if you want to contact me PM me and I will send you my phone # and we can talk

Chris

[100million]

Re: next step after insulating

Not to be argumentative, but it has been noted on several other threads that any aluminum foil product WILL corrode/disolve if put in contact with uncured cement based products...this would include perlcrete, vermicrete, and any form of stucco.
These radiant barriers may very well be "state of the art", but they don't have unlimited uses. I could not find specifics on the uses of the product listed, but it is easily confirmed that foil reacts negatively to uncurred cement.
I did find one name brand manufacturer of foil radiant barriers that specifically states to not place in contact with uncurred concrete. I believe it was Radiant Guard (radiantguard.com)
Cecelia, save your money and save time.....skip the foil.

RT

Dont you think that your first 2 firings (realy cooking pizza up to temp).... all concrete will be cured and with stucco WITH Acrylic bonding agent or STO or Dryvit will keep any more water from your foil

[kebwi]

Re: next step after insulating

I think it takes a long time to drive all the moisture out of a new oven. One concern that recently came up in another thread is water that seeps across the hearth under the insulation boards during the long construction process. That moisture will eventually be driven out by heat after the hearth is sealed, but it may take a while. Having brought my oven up to pizza temperatures five to ten times now I find that my oven is still improving its performance (or I am improving my ability to fire it). I think it takes a while to really dry it out. Just my thoughts.

[RTflorida]

Re: next step after insulating

2 fires, not a chance. Takes at least a dozen firings AFTER following the curring fires process, and that is just to drive out moisture; as for actually being "curred", it is a never ending process, cement based products continue to cure for many many years.

The acrylic bonding agents in any of these products are not going to stop or lessen the reaction between the materials. Its not the water that will disolve your foil.

Not wanting to get in a pissing match, if the foil is free - go for it, it isn't going to hurt anything, but I seriously doubt there is any benefit to its useage.

RT

[Tscarborough]

Re: next step after insulating

Mine is still improving after many hours of fires. It is 10 degrees above ambient right now, 5 days after firing, with a full string of pizza, bread, and roast cooking from last weekend. My perlite base was soaked when I dried in the enclosure.

[david s]

Re: next step after insulating

Your oven will continue to improve in performance even after many firings. You might think it is dry but it is still expelling moisture and goes on improving for maybe 15 firings from new. Regarding the alfoil, I found it to be a mistake in my case. I placed a layer of it over my insulation before doing the stucco and it did areally good job of locking in the moisture. I placed lots of pin pricks at the apex and also at about 3/4 up the dome on one side. Guess what? this was exactly where it got hot to touch on the outside while the rest was just cosy warm. Took ages to eliminate the moisture inside. I wouldn't use foil again.