Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

[SCChris]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

John,
Re. the thermal break;

I did try the break with the soapstone and could have kept the SS in the entry area. The break made a substantial difference with the entry stone temps and the overall duration of heat retention. The only reason I swapped to granite was the warmer color of the granite was more in step with the overall area not for any functional reason. I was more comfortable with the soapstone at 3cm and that SS is not porous granite is more porous and needs to be sealed in a kitchen setting. I understand that oil and wine can stain and be noticeable in certain types.

Chris

PS I know I included a graphic somewhere but don't find it at the moment. What I did was to rip a piece of rigid insulation in a "L". The high end of the L sits against the firebrick floor of the oven, the bottom of the L is a platform for the entry area granite floor. The L provides a 1/2 inch break between the oven and entry stone. The material is slightly resessed to avoid any contact with any food, pans or implements. Wlively uses a inverted V to minimize the gap at the door and I don't remember that he uses anything but ash as the filler material.

[scott123]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Anyone interested in a soapstone oven floor might want to connect with windage in the commercial area and ask about his experience with his WFO oven floor.

Chris

I know people successfully using slate in ovens. Jamie Oliver has been known to recommend slate as a baking stone. Slate has a long history in oven use. This doesn't mean that slate is a viable choice for baking. It has a ridiculously low resistance to thermal shock.

Soapstone will always be a gamble. Windage might install a piece that lasts them a few hundred years, while someone in this forum might install a piece that lasts them a week. Mother nature has no quality control.

[skulptor007]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Hi there,

I'm a newbie to the site and pizza ovens,but I have been specializing in Soapstone since 2003 and have been a stone sculptor/tilesetter/stone fabricator since 1987.
I'm not sure if I can name my business, but I would be willing to donate some remnant soapstone pieces( mostly smaller pieces that could be made into bricks but I have a couple larger pieces that would make up a floor) to those sincere in educating themselves with it as long as they share their findings with the group here and dont use the pieces for profit,as I'm interested in building ovens using soapstone in the best capacity, hearth floors,walls or domes etc.

Those of you interested pm me.

Ciao!
Greg

[buckeyebreadman]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Too far away for me, but a very kind gesture nonetheless. Thanks.

[luca]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Interesting discussion! As it turns out, I just finished a barrel vault oven with a 18"x24" soapstone slab in the center of the cooking floor surrounded by firebrick, with an overall cooking surface of 24"x36". This is my 4th-5th cooking experience, and here's how it works; the soapstone slab has an enormous temperature gradient, measuring 868F at the edge of the fire, to 770F about 4 inches away from the fire, all the way down to 540F at the flue. Meanwhile, the firebricks on the edge of the soapstone range from 660F at the fire's edge, to 660 F 4 inches from the fire, to 560F at the flue. This means that I burn the bottom of my pizzas if I put them anywhere near the fire, so I have to cook them under the flue (650F seems to be the ideal floor temp). I have also used a wire grid under the pizza closer to the fire, and this prevents burning and lets the top cook faster, at a higher temp. Also, my soapstone cracked when I left the new fire on its surface, so now I start the fire and immediately move it to the back of the oven to avoid this problem. Since i live in Vermont where soapstone is cheap ($10/sf) I thought I'd try it, but I agree with those of you who point out that firebricks maintain an even temperature and are easier to maintain. I've considered removing the soapstone, but now that I know how to work with it, I'll keep cooking for awhile and see if there are any major benefits. Overall though, I'd advise staying with firebricks!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

If nothing else, soapstone is a natural product and as such is highly variable in it's specific properties. Nice landing and counter material, but not so much for the floor of the oven itself.

[lwood]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Sounds like a bad experience with soapstone.

[devilsbrew]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Great thread. Very informative.

[luca]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Update on my Soapstone Floor! I wrote previously about my soapstone floor in my barrel vault here in Vermont (see 10/12/12 for the issues). Well last week I decided to remove the soapstone entirely, and replaced it with 1 inch firebricks (the soapstone was also 1" thick). The major problem is that the stuff just got too damned hot, and if I didn't have my laser thermometer at hand, I was almost always burning the bottoms of my pizza. Also, even though I moved the fire off the soapstone after starting it, it still cracked into several pieces, which, fortunately for me, made it MUCH easier to pull the floor out! (The entire slab weighed about 40 lbs. and would have been very hard to handle through the oven door opening of 9x17"). I didn't see any evidence of "shards" as someone else mentioned in another comment, so I don't think it would have been unsafe to continue cooking on it, and the cracks--while completely through the material--did not cause any large gaps etc. because the piece was bordered by firebricks, keeping everything from moving. The lesson here is that soapstone is certainly unnecessary, has unique cooking issues, and must be SLOWLY brought to temperature to avoid cracking. On the other hand, the firebricks work just great, and even they will burn the bottoms if I'm not careful, so nothing was lost in this experiment!

[mrchipster]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Luca,

Thanks for the update, I was thinking of getting a small 16x16 inch piece of soapstone to experiment on but here, even as a drop from a kitchen remodel they want a lot of money. I will keep on looking for a cheap or free piece I think it would be interesting to try it but I am glad I did not go for the floor insert like you did. It is good to see that people are experimenting.

[nsascher]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

I just spent $1500.00 for soapstone to put into an exisiting wood fired oven. I had no idea how soft it was.My fingernail scratches it. I have a restaurant so we use metal paddles and wire brushes. Obviuosly this is going to scratch it terribly. What is everyone using as utensils ?
Nathalie

[luca]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

I really don't think you will have a problem. I used standard metal and wood utensils on my soapstone for 2 years with no visible problems. The wire brush I used is uniform in bristle length, so there was no chance for gouging. The aluminum turning peel is used with minimal force on the horizontal plane, so again little opportunity for damage. As you will note in my earlier notes, the issue that made me remove the soapstone was not undue or uneven wear; it was the overheating and cracking elements related to intense fires built on the soapstone itself. I've seen soapstone slabs used in commercial ovens (e.g. see American Flatbread ovens) and haven't heard of any problems. Incidentally, they have two slabs with the fire burning between the slabs so that there is no direct fire touching the stone. That assures a slow heating process and allows the soapstone to achieve high heat without cracking.

[luca]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

P.S. I had a 14"x18" piece of soapstone left over from my oven build, so I placed it in our electric home oven and tried making a pizza on it. Amazingly, after heating the oven for about 45 minutes, it gave a nice browning to the bottom of the pizza!! I tried it again and this time used the broiler for the last 5 minutes or so to get the top browner (which worked great). The bottom line is you can get a very good pizza in a 500 degree home oven by use of a soapstone slab and broiler finish!!

[GIANLUCA]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Firebrick all the way! It's cheaper and it works

[HoneyWood]

Re: Soapstone vs Firebrick ??

Has Anyone ever used soapstone for the dome of the oven?