Compact 36" in Seattle

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Great-looking start to your oven, Cedar! Nice tight joints with a clean finish. You will thank yourself for your attention to detail every time you go to make pizza and your dome clears. Don't know about those fingers, though!

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Looking good, I'm jealous you beat me to start mortaring things together. I have all these bricks ready but it's raining all week. Are you going to do the opening next to connect everything together.

Mike

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Gianni, thanks, that makes me feel good. Hopefully I stay on track.

Mike, I'm in Seattle, rain can't stop me! I set up a canopy over my oven, and I've been working in the pouring rain.

About the opening, I have to decide on my final vent/door design, and then build a form. The problem is there doesn't seem to be any consensus on best vent designs, and there are a lot of them out there. I'm thinking of doing something not far off from kebwi's design, except I intend to use a clay flu liner instead of a metal pipe.

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I was looking at Kwebi's build and Smjeff's as well. I cut all the pieces for the dome (not easy). I plan on getting some serious work done on Thursday (no rain). I like your style of putting up a cover and working in the rain. What did you use to cover up the area?

Mike

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I hope you got all those cuts all right! Are you making angled cuts? If so, just on the horizontal plane or the vertical as well? I'm just doing the horizontal, so each brick is cut once on an angle, making two angled half bricks. That makes a smaller mortar joint between bricks horizontally within a course, but has no impact on the mortar joint between courses vertically. I think the cool kids make the vertical angled cut too, but I don't have the patience to figure out what angles each different course should be. Someone threatened to make a spreadsheet that would calculate all that, but so far, everyone who wants to do that has to recreate the wheel.

The canopy I'm using is similar to this one:
Amazon.com: E-Z UP Sierra II 10 by 10 Shelter, Blue: Patio, Lawn & Garden

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I have only cut the sides of the bricks (3 cuts for one brick=2 pieces with angles at 5 degrees). But these 2 rows are only straight up. The next row will be tilted in to start the round shape. I was going to try and compound cut to help with the inverted v's. I don't plan on cutting the face's of the bricks (way too hard with a 10" saw).

I think I will try to create a tent with tarps and rope (I don't want to buy a canopy).

Mike

[Sharkey]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Finally got started "for real". I decided to scrap catenary domes, squashed domes, low domes, and just go with simple old hemispherical. That way I could use the indispensable tool, and it just cut down on too much thinking about it. I did two courses yesterday, and one today. Today was the first course that started to angle inward, and was more challenging than the previous two. My cheap-n-cheerful indispensable tool really helped, and I feel good about how it is going.
.

I'll post more about building my tool on the indispensable tool thread, but I think mine might be the easiest to construct that I've seen yet.

I agree that simple hemispherical is the best way to go and that is also what I did. In my opinion the soldier course, or even a few vertical rows, causes more problems than it is worth. There is the inherent week spot and the extra complication.

The argument seems to be that you have more usable space if the lower wall is vertical. Well I measured it before I started and if you want to put something 8 inches high against the side of a plain hemispherical oven it is sitting about 35mm (1.5 inches) away from the wall at the bottom. I wanted a 1 metre cooking floor so I just made my oven slightly bigger. That seems to be the simplest solution. I added 70mm and 1070mm just happens to be 42 inches!

Secondly, most people that cook in a pot or tray seem to put something under it so it is not in direct contact with the floor. Why would you then put it right up against the edge of the oven so that one side is in direct contact with the wall?

Good start to your oven. Keep up the good work.

P.S. My indespensable tool was made from a couple of bits of plywood (offcuts from making the arch forms) and a hinge.

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Progress, and big chimney decisions to be made....

I've been slowly chipping away at my dome and arch. See pics. But now I'm paralyzed by indecision about what to do about my chimney. In no particular order, here are some thoughts and priorities...

1. I'm going igloo style to comport with my "compact" design priority. I think it is the smallest form for an oven.
2. I don't like the look of a big silver pipe sticking out of my beautiful brick oven.
3. The price of duravent sticks in my craw
4. Clay flue liner is cheap
5. I can only find 12" sections of flue liner around here!
6. Because of the compactness design priority, I'd like to avoid bulding a brick chimney to surround the flue liner

Now I have some questions...

1. Is there a good metal option that is substantially cheaper than duravent?
2. Is single wall OK?
3. Can I give the exterior of a metal pipe the same treatment I give the outside of the dome? By that I mean insulation, wire-lathe, some sort of mud, and then some sort of waterproof stucco-like materal.
4. If I find longer clay flue liner sections, how long a section can jut unsupported from the brick structure?
5. If I can't find longer flue liner sections, can the sections be joined or supported somehow, without building a brick chimney surrounding it?
6. How do I prevent water from running straight down the outside of the pipe/liner and into the oven entry?
7. What is the shortest chimney you would contemplate?
8. Is 8x8 square flue liner sufficiently large?

It boils down to this..... How can I build a chimney that doesn't look like metal, costs lest that duravent, and doesn't require building a brick chimney surround? Is there anything realistic left?

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

On another topic, while calling around trying to find some place that sold sections of flue liner longer than 12 inches (which I failed to do), I called IXL, where I got my brick and skagits, and they are out of business! When I called they had 30 minutes left before they closed forever! I called a chimney guy and a couple of masons, and they all suggested the same place that only carries the 12" pieces. It is probably possible to have them shipped from farther away, but what is the longest piece of flue liner that you guys have heard of?

Also, more pics...

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I have only seen 12" sections, but you can mortar them together to get higher up. That is what I plan on doing when I get there. I am not sure how to seal the water out yet (on the sides). You will need a cap for the top, but I am sure you know that.

Mike

[BriggsARNP]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Did you try Harbison-Walker REfractories in Kent? I know some other folks have used them. I called them and asked some questions about ceramic fiber board etc. and the guy seemed knowledgeable. 253-872-2552 I dont know if they have flu liner but you can call.

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Mike, I'm pretty married to the igloo idea. My current plan is to wrap the chimney in insulation, wire, then render and stucco, and hope the thermal expansion won't open any cracks in the waterproof exterior. I want it to be a seemless transistion between the chimney and the rest of the structure.

Briggs, thanks for the tip, they didn't have flu liner, but they do have ceramic insulating blankets, which I'll need for wrapping the chimney.

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

-What if you put a ceramic chimney pot over the exposed clay flue liner to help insulate it. That might solve the temperature cracking of the liner as well as help seal out the weather.
-Just thinking out loud here.

Mike

[ohthetrees]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Darn it! Just lost a post! The gist was... Good idea, I wonder if a flue liner would actually be able to run the whole vertical distance through a chimney pot, or are there internal barriers? Also I wonder how much those pots cost?

Thanks for the idea!

[Mike D]

Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I was just looking at them and they where not cheap ($300-$1000) depending on the size and shape. Maybe find one at a salvage yard?

Mike