Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

[dvm]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Granite can spall from heat as well. I just found out the hard way. I cut a piece for my garden window with a dry blade. I was just told yesterday that it cannot be polished like the rest of the surface. Have you considered soapstone? If I had a do over, I would go that route.

Is the problem that the dry blade "damaged the stone" so now it can't be finished? I know that granite CAN be polished to a smooth, shiny finish after cutting with a wet saw. (BTW a "skill saw plugged into a GFI with a diamond bade and low pressure sprinkler systems drip of water onto the blade mimics a "wet saw" very nicely). We put granite counters in the kitchen a few years back - this place had great prices (delivered)! and all the needed supplies Do It Yourself Granite Countertops - GRANITE COUNTERTOPS - Granite Countertop - Granite Tops - Granite Top - Granite Kitchen Countertops - Granite Counters Their polishing pads work great. I am going to try then on concrete next!
dvm

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Oh thanks Les, I meant to say soapstone, not sandstone. Ah, grease..of course - good point.

[Les]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Another question, there is a lot of limestone in this area, could it be used? Any reason sandstone is a better material?

I'm not a brick / rock guy but I would think that either limestone or sandstone would be too soft. Apparently soapstone can handle the heat and it will not soak up the greases that WILL drip as you are cooking meals. Pizza was never a problem but when I started using the Tuscan grill for steaks - messy!

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Soapstone. Hmm, I hadn't considered another material, I guess I was focused on this marble the entire time.

I'm considering cutting it myself. Anyone (obviously not professional stone cutters) out there do their own slab cutting? The sides are already cut to width on the marble chunk I have, I have to just square up the bottom --- and create a slight arch on one side, which I would need to buff with a grinder a bit to give it a nice edge. If I go that route, I don't really have any money in it, so if it broke with time, I could live with replacing it.

Another question, there is a lot of limestone in this area, could it be used? Any reason sandstone is a better material?

Thanks!

[Les]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Do I need a heat break at all if I use granite? Thanks all!

Granite can spall from heat as well. I just found out the hard way. I cut a piece for my garden window with a dry blade. I was just told yesterday that it cannot be polished like the rest of the surface. Have you considered soapstone? If I had a do over, I would go that route.

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Thanks @azatty, I did do some research on marble and I'm torn as to which way to go, considering I like this marble piece I have an awful lot...but I don't want to have paid for it to be shaped and have it split on me, thanks for leading me to that thermal hysteresis problem. I'm going out to the stone cutters the first of this week to talk with them, as I know granite is far more resilient.

So I'm still not clear on how I would need to use the ceramic tape, what is the best thing to use to seal it into the joint? Do I have to seal it? Could I just set it in the joint between the oven brick and the granite/marble as long as it was recessed in the joint and let a bit of ash cover the gap? How thick is this stuff?

I've been busy getting the entry built up, I was about 4 inches short on the hearth, so I built out my granite arch and then added brick to make up for my shortcomings (yes, this making up for errors is a theme I have going on with this build, but it's all good) I'm pretty happy with it so far. Ultimately I save a enough time by not planning anything that I can make up for it in rebuilding it () HA!

I have to take this ceramic tape/heat break seriously though. Is there something else I should consider? There are 2 layers of FB board under this entrance just to get it to the height I need. The picture shows a mock up out of wood cut to 3/4 inch thickness, the same as my marble, but I have allowance there for more, knowing standard granite is twice that thickness.

Do I need a heat break at all if I use granite? Thanks all!

[azatty]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

After doing some research, you may not be overthinking the heat break. Marble apparently falls victim to "thermal hysteresis.". I gather from my reading that uneven heating of marble can cause part of the tile to delaminate. It is apparently observed at low temperatures, too, and is a concern when determining how to face buildings with marble. You may want to spend some time looking into the issue.

[Neil2]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Concrete counter tops are an easy, inexpensive and very practical solution.

Some suggest poring the countertop into a mold and then turning over, but you can achieve the same result with a "face up" approach.

Pour it as you would any reinforced slab. 1 1/2 inch thick is enough. Add some concrete dye if you want.

The interesting part is the grinding and finishing. I do the initial grinding when the concrete is still somewhat "green", 3 days or so after the pour (keep it wet). This is done with diamond grinding cup on a 5 inch grinder. I cut it down 1/8 inch or so to expose the aggregate. Don't worry about it being level - if you make the same number of passes and don't linger in one spot it seems to work out OK. Chamfer the edges and round the corners at this stage. Fill in any pockmarks or air holes:

Finishing Concrete Counters: How to Cure, Grind, and Polish a Concrete Counter Top | Suite101.com

I wait at least two weeks (keeping the slab completely saturated with water the whole time) before starting the polishing. The concrete will be hard enough at this stage so that bits are not picked out by the polishing pads. I used a set of diamond pads (50 grit to 3000 grit) and polish wet. You can get to a mirror finish. Below is one I did with a green dye (also a picture of my 5'4" wife).

After final polishing and buffing, I let it dry out completely and have use a wetting product such as "Enrich-n-seal" to bring out the colour of the aggregate. This is heat proof and food safe.

The whole process is very messy. Do it outside and rig some poly screens to protect the surroundings.

It is labour intensive so I strongly suggest you do some test pieces first - benches, stepping stones etc, and experiment with the colour and the grinding depth.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Xene,

Might want to check McGills warehouse online. They are out of Calf. and their ceramic fiber blankets have good pricing. Not sure what shipping would be to IA.

Russell

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

I like your cantilevered counter idea a lot, but I have a height deficit (5'2") and I wouldn't be able to work the dough on a higher surface, a standard counter top is actually too high for me. I'll probably need a stool to get any heavy pots in and out of there (that most likely will fall under 'husband duty'.)

Lovely work on the concrete! Any recommended resources you've read online that might direct me to how to gave it that nice surface? I've got some research to do in that area before I start pouring my counters. Luckily we have friends in the concrete business, I hope they can help too.

[Neil2]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

If it is not too late, you may want to consider making your prep area the same height as your hearth. Also consider consider extending part of this surface up to the hearth such that you can slide a heavy hot pot in and out without lifting.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f39/angled-flight-deck-17629.html

As for a landing/hearth heat break, simply set the landing back 1 inch or so. The gap will create no problems with respect to sliding things in or out or with using your peel. On my oven, this gap (which is the full width of the opening) communicates downward to a 4 inch diameter hole thru the slab and acts as a clean out.

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Maybe I'm over thinking the need for a heat break? The marble I'm thinking of using for the entry is flat, old counter top stolen from a house we lived in that was being torn down to put up condos. The entire bathroom was marble and I took it all (husband has complained about those boxes of marble with our every move - so now I want to put them to good use, show him it was worth it!)

This marble would butt right up to the threshold of the oven, can marble take that kind of heat? It is black marble when wet, grayish when dry. It has spent years just resting against the side of the house so the shiny finish has worn dull (which fits my aesthetic for this build.)

I have pieces of FB board left that I was going to use under the marble, but that edge that rests directly against the fire brick, which serves as the threshold under the door...that has me worried. It's a sentimental thing with this bigger chunk of marble, I'd feel bad if I broke it simply because I didn't use a heat break of some sort.

What are your recommendations?

I'm looking at this place for my blanket and tape (if I use it) as the husband says they have the best prices he's found so far: High Temperature Process Equipment Engineering and Consulting

[azatty]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

I think you're stuck with four rolls. But measure your dome and do the math (3.14 x diameter). Remember that you essentially expand the diameter by two inches for each layer of insulation, so successive layers are composed of longer pieces. Creative cutting and fitting could get you the extra insulation you need.

I don't have experience with finishng an igloo, so I'm useless there. Here's what I THINK could work, though: cut your marble so that it's a freestanding arch. Mortar it to the slab and the firebrick arch with homebrew. You could place dowels in the joint between the two arches and remove them after the mortar starts to firm up. That would give you something of a heat break while avoiding a completely detached decorative arch. But in all honesty, the early builders didn't use heat breaks and their ovens seem to be fine.

For the countertop, all you have to do is make boxes of the appropriate shape and size for the hotel pans out of 1x3 or 2x4 material, and then pour around them.

[Xene]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Deejayoh - I'm probably not calling it by the proper name, as I'm sure there is an Arabic word for it...sajji perhaps? We want a grill area that is hot, where we can get the meat right on top of the coals, for shish-kabob and burgers, so I'm building it into one of the counters.

My plan is to make it sunken in, perhaps have it fabricated- it would be a shallow box with a hole to sweep out coal at one end - but just wide enough to lay skewers of meat across. When not in use I'm hoping to cover it with several large floor tiles so that the length of it can be used as counter space.

In comparison to this build, that seems easy.

Anyone else want to steer me away from storing wood under my prep area? Since my base is set at an angle that opening is only about 18 inches once I get it faced with granite block (today's task) so it is worthless as wood storage, way too tight.

Very cool table Laurentius! Casting the table top is a great idea, I'm imaging a similar project here now...this may never end!

[deejayoh]

Re: Insulation blanket, ceramic insulating tape?

Also - you can get ceramic fiber tape here

Ceramic Fiber Tape