40" corner build in central TX

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

The way I look at it, it doesn't really matter how it comes out, as long it gets done, it will cook a pizza

I do agree that the IT makes things look worse... courses 3-5 look pretty nice and went up quick. I was just using the IT to make a quick check and wasn't trying to force anything to conform. I started using the IT more at course 6 as I was closing the dome a bit too fast(probably would've been 19.5" if I'd let it go) and it definitely doesn't look as nice inside.
Personally, I needed the IT for the first few courses to wrap my head around the required angles, etc. I was misinterpreting info from different spread sheets at first, and as a result my slope angle was way less than it needed to be, so I made an IT and pulled the bricks out and re-did them. what I came to realize is the slope angle is the same between courses, so once I got a feel for how big the gap at the outside of the brick should be, I just went with it. now that I know that, I probably wouldn't do an IT again.

I've noticed that if I can get my bricks placed 'perfectly' in the first 2 seconds, they won't slide, even on course 9. If I have to move them after that, then they want to droop about 3/16" down from where I want them, which for that, the IT is pretty handy. The moral, of course, is don't screw them up in the first place!

Something I've found that helps me achieve this is 'priming' the vertical face of the brick you're butting up to with a thin layer of mortar. Then I don't have to wiggle the new brick to get the mortar to coat that brick. I set the horizontal inside edge of the new brick on the edge of the previous course, snug the vertical inside edge up to the previous brick, then shimmy the brick over and down until it lines up and check the slope with the angle gauge. *usually* I can get this done without breaking the initial set, which happens with the really thin section of mortar on the inside 1/2" of the horizontal brick. If the bricks aren't sopping wet, that section sets within 2 seconds, hence no droop. if you break that whilst arranging, the brick wants to droop because it seems once the mortar is over 1/8", it takes a significantly longer time to set.

Currently, I'm letting my hands dry out so I can superglue the end of my right middle finger where I wore through the skin. again. Course 9 is done and I cleaned the dome floor and cleaned up some errant mortar on the inside of the dome. I'll still have to clean the joints between the floor bricks, but I still have a bit more grinding to do, so this is by no means the last cleaning. that said, I did take roughly a gallon of brick dust out from the floor and arch entry.

Stonecutter, I can see why you might think carpenter, as what I did resembles a window header and rafters, respectively, but no, I'm in automotive. I grew up doing restorations working for my dad, now I refurb fleet vehicles at a dealer. I wound up doing the arch that way mostly because it's really difficult to cut bricks on the wide dimension (like the arch corners) with a 10" saw. Also, the center section of the tudor arch is so close to a straight line on an arch this size that it goes beyond my masonry skills to create the arch, so I opted for this way
All the stuff on the arch tie-in was the result of me not wanting to think about it and winging it until I got there. I'm sure there's a better solution, but I'm not afraid of a grinder, so that's what I came up with.

It's still looking possible that I could be done today, as well

[stonecutter]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

......The three full-size bricks distorted the circle a little bit, but I think I'll be back in round and level after course 9.

That's right, gain a little back each course.

Asymmetry causes panic in a lot of builds, but it's no big deal. Personally, I think coming out of round is more apt to happen using that centering tool, because it is relied upon and you get disconnected to the work....but that's just my opinion.


I don't think I have ever seen an oven opening arch laid as shiners with a back arch. That is some creative transitioning too...are you a carpenter by trade?

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I got the arch all tied in today and half of course 9 done, I'm really hoping to get the dome closed tomorrow

I cut a rabbet in the center brick to get rid of the step in the arch/dome joint. there is a small triangle left on either side of the center brick, but I'll either grind it out or fill it with something if it bothers me too much.

In hindsight I should've cut the center brick in row 7 down, as I had to grind about half the brick off, which broke the mortar loose. that would'nt normally be a problem, but it's keyed in, so I had to wiggle it around to get the old set mortar out and re-mortar it in there. I still have a bit of grinding to do on the center brick on the bottom, but I'm going to wait until it's well-cured(end of day tomorrow, maybe) to get after that.

The three full-size bricks distorted the circle a little bit, but I think I'll be back in round and level after course 9.

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Thanks for the suggestion, Mirassou, but that ship's already sailed. I'm going to have a fair bit of detail work to do to get the floor clean and I'll probably re-level the center 4 bricks, as having the one out in the middle has allowed them to shift a bit.

@EricU, That's the plan!

I got another 30 bricks today which should get the dome, arch, and chimney base done and hopefully the former this weekend!

[mirassou]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Ogorir, suggest covering the bricks on the floor with something, so that mortar doesn't get into the cracks and cause expansion toward the dome. I thought of that because of Deejayoh. I had my floor covered, but not the perimeter. He suggested to use duct tape around the perimeter for the same reason.

[EricU]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Looks awesome, you should plan on cooking your turkey in it for T-Day!

Keep up the good work!

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I had to take a few days off due to rain and mosquitoes, but I got course 6 tied into the arch and course 7 done to the arch joint. I think I'm going to start cutting the bricks into 3rds on course 8 to closer approximate a circle as the diameter gets smaller.

you can see in the first picture how much I will have to grind out to smooth the transition into the dome, but I think I'm going to leave the rest of the grinding until after I get above the arch completely.

I have 39 bricks left, so I'll probably go grab a few more tomorrow if I can get away from work for a few, I'd really like to finish the dome this weekend and it's going to be really close getting that done with what I have.

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I got the arch joint done thru course 5 save for some grinding and the first 9 bricks of course 7 done tonight. I tried grinding the left side an hour after I set it in, but it broke the mortar lose before I finished, so I'll just wait until tomorrow to do that. I need to get that roughed in before I can do the arch joint on course 6, though. If I wake up at a reasonable time tomorrow, I might see if I can finish cutting course 7 and maybe rough-cut the course 6 joints.

you can see in pic #4 how my arch is basically tangent to the dome, so it will pull the dome out of round a bit tying it in, but I'm not really worried about that.

[mirassou]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Congratulations on your progress...just go ahead and work on cutting the bricks close to the arch. You can check one with the IT, then mortar it as your IT is holding a brick while the mortar sets on the upper course.

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I stole garnerAC's replace-a-brick idea and used the lock/latch swivel from a padlock latch, which on top of a 2x6 puts the pivot dead even with the floor. The all-thread is bolted through an eye-bolt with fender washers, eye bolt bolted through the lock swivel. The hole in the swivel is rectangular, so I stuck a small bolt in front of the eye bolt to keep the pivot in the same place.

It's not a perfect solution, there's about an inch offset to one side, but it was cheap enough and a bolt together solution. I did weld a u-shaped piece of steel to my angle iron on the other side so I had some length adjustment, though.

[deejayoh]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Looking good! I like how you put the IT pivot below floor level. That will get you a lower dome. But you're going to have to tie that opening arch in sooner or later...

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I put up a tent over the dome saturday morning, as we were forecast to get .4" saturday night. I sure am glad I did. I got just shy of 3".

I've figured out, at least temporarily, how to get my angle/bevels cut. I had written off the miter head on the HF saw because the blade hits the table outside of the 0,22.5,45 degree slots, but I tried setting the blade to just above the rubber surface and it will still cut the bricks with ease, so that's what I'm going with until it doesn't work.

I've got through course 6 done on the dome and the arch joint done through course 3. I've been leaving those because they take forever on my arch because the sides are straight and I have the arch set further out from the center than some, so there's a bit more finicky angle work than normal. from here up I'm basically just planning on getting a brick cut to fit the last dome brick and the arch and grinding the face until it fits correctly.

I'm going to try to get the arch joint done up to at least course 6 tomorrow and get course 7 done around the dome. I'm pretty sure course 6 will partially go across the arch and course 7 will finish it out.

It was dark when I was done, pics tomorrow.[edit: pictures now]

[edit] you might also notice that there's a bit of a step in course 6, I was getting off the IT a bit and closing the dome too quickly by a few degrees, so I decided that I should probably fix that while the offset was only 1/8" in most places, especially because I'm starting to need the IT to hold the bricks until they bite. Up to course 6, I was basically only using it for the first brick and checking 2-3 more per course. it's worked so far... I threw the level across for the first time on course 5 and its dead level in one direction and about an 1/8" in the other. I was pretty surprised at that, as I haven't exactly been paying that much heed.

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

Wow, I guess I've done a pretty terrible job updating this! I haven't gotten a ton done on the oven in the last month, but I did manage to get some stuff done this week and weekend. I've been working in the attic preparing to put up a radiant barrier, pulling out an old 48" whole-house fan, pulling out old squirrel-chewed fiberglass batts, actually installing soffit vents(!)(1) and preparing to blow in some cellulose.

I was having a time getting my floor perfectly level with no gaps, so I took a rub brick and put a slight bevel on the top edges so at the least the peel won't catch. I used dry fireclay and sand for a leveling bed, which worked fairly well, but it was difficult to level across the whole floor. I think I wound up being about 1/8" low in the center.

Yesterday I cut up the box my wife's tread mill came in (3-ply HD cardboard) to make a template for the inner arch footprint and first course of dome bricks. the 3-ply was probably way over kill and took forever to cut, but I'dve had to cut the thing up at some point to throw it away anyway, so it might as well serve a purpose.

I got the inner arch all cut and the upright sections mortared in yesterday. It's been cold the lat few days, at least for Texas, so I waited until today to do the horizontal sections and the keystone. I decided to do the horizontal sections out of one brick per side to minimize the number of joints and because cutting the bricks the tall way on the 10" HF brick saw is a pain. I think it turned out well, though. I still need to put in the rear wythe, but I wanted to let the mortar get good and hard on the front wythe first. I'm using a 4:1:1:1 homebrew w/ about 2pts water and the stuff I did yesterday around noon is still dark(wet) gray. I can only assume it's the temperature (62 high on sat, 44 degrees overnight,72 high sun) that's causing it to take it's sweet time setting. It bites just fine, but it doesn't have a lot of strength even 24hrs out.

I did the first course of dome brick just as half bricks and used some of my splits to wedge in the wide mortar joints, which went smooth sailing. Then I tried to adapt MrChipster's tilt/turn jig to my 10" saw, which so far has been a miserable failure. I started the second course just eyeballing it and splitting the bricks on a slight angle to reduce the mortar joint, which works fine on course#2, but I really need to figure something out before I get to the 3rd course. I know a number of people have used the 10" HF saw, how did you guys cut your bevel/angles?

Unfortunately, I probably won't get much done but mortaring the second course in and the rear wythe of the arch this week; my wife's orchestra kid's concerts are this week, so I'm on filming duty Tues and Thurs.

(1) due to the complete lack of soffit vents, I've decided to run 8- 240cfm fans in 6" duct to minimize the number of vents I need to install. Surplus center has a hell of a deal ($10/ea) on these EBM Papst fans that list for $88/ea at Allied Electronics. I scored a 13a 24v power supply for 35$ shipped off ebay this weekend, too

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I haven't really gotten anything done since I poured the insulating concrete, other projects have been getting in the way. I've been trying to find time at work to run over and get 1/2YD of fine brick sand, but that hasn't happened yet. I guess I'll have to make time today (in the rain).

I did cut up my cal-sil board, which as I suspected is not quite enough to go all the way under the dome bricks, so I'm going to have to fill in the edges with perlcrete. I'm thinking I will lay the floor brick under the dome brick so I have a level surface to start the dome on.

I finally brought home the sheet of 3/4" plywood that's been lying around work so I have something to pre-build my floor brick/arch/first course on. I'll have most of today to myself, so I'm hoping I can get a good bit done.

[ogorir]

Re: 40" corner build in central TX

I've almost gathered all my materials! On Friday I went over to Darden in Waco and bought 200 firebrick. When I got home, the 2 rolls of 1" cal-sil blanket and 2 sheets of 1" cal-sil board I ordered from Skyline Components in Phoenix were on the back steps. Saturday morning I drove down to Austin to visit TScarborough @ MPI and get my perlite, fireclay, flue pipe, and lime. On the way back I stopped at lowes and grabbed a few bags of portland, a bag of topping mix, and a sheet of 1/8" masonite w/melamine on one side.
All that's left to pick up is bulk fine brick sand, which I will get sometime early this week, and my stucco layers.

I had a previous engagement Saturday evening, but I had enough time to cut 2- 2" strips of masonite and clamp it into a 49.5" circle to form up my perlcrete. I placed a firebrick outside the circle every 45 degrees to keep it from moving. One side needed to be leveled up about 1/8" due to irregularities in the top slab.

Sunday I mixed up some perlcrete and poured my insulation. I dry mixed the portland and perlite, as recommended by everyone, 1:8, as recommended by Tom. My first attempt was a bit of a blunder, as I mixed a whole 4cu ft bag of perlite with half a bag of portland. It took forever to get it mixed evenly and it just barely fit in the wheelbarrow. I knew I wasn't going to have any chance wetting it in the wheelbarrow, so I used the mortar tub to mix up ~1cu ft batches. I'm really glad I did, as it was almost impossible to get the perlite to wet in even in the small tub. That's some seriously floaty, hydrophobic stuff. Even using the hose to mist it wet adding a scoop at a time to the mortar tub I still wound up with a floating island of perlite.

Once I ran out of my first 4cu ft of perlite premix, I started mixing the perlite and portland in smaller quantities (8- 2.5qt buckets to 1) and adding water in the wheelbarrow. I wound up needing 3 more of those to get my form filled, which is approx 2.25cu ft.

The last batch I tried something a little different. I mixed the water and portland together and added that to the perlite. It was way easier to tell when you had the perlite wetted, and the final texture is more workable, but It didn't seem like I got the perlite covered as well. It certainly solidified, so it can't be too bad. I think it probably took 30% less time to do it that way. I'm going to try a larger batch like that when I start the dome insulation, hopefully it will speed things up.

I plan on coating the top and about 1/2" of the sides of the perlcrete with a thin layer (3/16-1/4") of topping mix to level the surface and prevent the corner from crumbling while I assemble everything.

This week, I'm hoping to get my floor bricks cut, get my cal-sil board cut, and lay out my arch and buttressing. I'm going to have to try REALLY HARD not to do a flying buttress. I was planning on cutting the floor to go inside the dome, but I'm torn at this point. I'm not sure I see a benefit in disconnecting the thermal mass of the floor from the thermal mass of the dome, in fact I see the opposite. so, provided I can figure out how to stretch my cal-sil to cover, I may set my dome on top of my floor. If I go that route, I'll likely need to do about .5sq ft of 1" thick perlcrete to finish out the outside, as there's not quite enough cal-sil in 2 sheets to cover the footprint of the dome as well.

I'm thinking I'll probably smooth the topping mix on weds or thurs to give the perlcrete time to dry out. Has anyone had significant trapped water issues with the perlcrete/vermicrete? I can imagine that it will take quite a while to fully dry out.

Also, it appears I'm an ejit... I thought I took pictures of the form before I poured and before I de-formed... but apparently I was making that up. I'll edit in pictures of the finished product later.