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  • #16
    Re: Floor Insulation

    I also was considering forming up, on top of the concrete hearth slab, in the shape of the oven and vent area, a pour of 4 inches of vermicrete. I think it's been done by others on here and that's where I got the idea. It looks like they used a luan plywood bendable form. I would use that or Masonite. I would probably make that pour about 4 inches bigger in area than the footprint of the WFO, to keep from losing heat to the slab, etc. I'm just weighing out my options and trying to get together a game plan. I like to get the pros and cons from you experienced builders, which I am not.
    My Build:
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

    "Believe that you can and you're halfway there".

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    • #17
      Re: Floor Insulation

      Originally posted by david s View Post
      I did some test on this and documented the results. The test was done in ideal drying conditions. Hope this helps.
      Thanks. Not sure why, but I was not able to open that file.
      My Build:
      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

      "Believe that you can and you're halfway there".

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      • #18
        Re: Floor Insulation

        Yes, that's the idea. You can also use some sheet metal cut to height, it is easier to bend. Pop rivet a couple of lengths together if it's not long enough. Clamping the ends together and oiling the inside will make for easier removal.
        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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        • #19
          Re: Floor Insulation

          Originally posted by NCMan View Post
          I also was considering forming up, on top of the concrete hearth slab, in the shape of the oven and vent area, a pour of 4 inches of vermicrete. I think it's been done by others on here and that's where I got the idea. It looks like they used a luan plywood bendable form. I would use that or Masonite. I would probably make that pour about 4 inches bigger in area than the footprint of the WFO, to keep from losing heat to the slab, etc. I'm just weighing out my options and trying to get together a game plan. I like to get the pros and cons from you experienced builders, which I am not.
          I did something similar to what you intend to do. I sized mine so that the finished dome (insulated, rendered etc) ended just over the edge of the vermicrete. That way it is sealed with no way for water to get into the vermicrete other than via the hearth.

          I used very thin MDF cut into 4" strips and it bends smoothly and evenly and worked well. When I did this I poured the 4" slab and then boxed the outside up another 4" and formed the keyhole shape on top of that, poured the outside, removed the form and then poured the vermicrete. It is a good idea to have some drainage capacity in the bottom slab to allow any water that enters via the hearth a way out.

          Anyway a picture is worth a thousand words. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...size=960%2C720

          Good luck with your build. You seem to be on the right track and there is no way you can over research or plan your build.
          Cheers ......... Steve

          Build Thread http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f3/n...erg-19151.html

          Build Pics http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=1626b3f4f4

          Forno Food Pics https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1d5ce2a275

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          • #20
            Re: Floor Insulation

            Thanks Dave,

            Yes, I was happy with this session's pies, but have found that I have a lot of learning to do, with the oven as well as dough prep. I plan on sharing my (good and bad) results, but to keep things simple, I think I'll stick to posting pie pics on my OctoForno thread.

            John

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            • #21
              Re: Floor Insulation

              Originally posted by NCMan View Post
              Thanks. Not sure why, but I was not able to open that file.
              It was a zipped file and I'm on a mac. Try this one
              Attached Files
              Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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              • #22
                Re: Floor Insulation

                Originally posted by david s View Post
                It was a zipped file and I'm on a mac. Try this one
                Still can't open, says it's "corrupt". Thanks, anyway. I appreciate the effort.
                My Build:
                http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

                "Believe that you can and you're halfway there".

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Floor Insulation

                  Originally posted by Greenman View Post
                  I did something similar to what you intend to do. I sized mine so that the finished dome (insulated, rendered etc) ended just over the edge of the vermicrete. That way it is sealed with no way for water to get into the vermicrete other than via the hearth.

                  I used very thin MDF cut into 4" strips and it bends smoothly and evenly and worked well. When I did this I poured the 4" slab and then boxed the outside up another 4" and formed the keyhole shape on top of that, poured the outside, removed the form and then poured the vermicrete. It is a good idea to have some drainage capacity in the bottom slab to allow any water that enters via the hearth a way out.

                  Anyway a picture is worth a thousand words. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...size=960%2C720

                  Good luck with your build. You seem to be on the right track and there is no way you can over research or plan your build.
                  Steve......thanks. It may have been your pictures that I got the inspiration from. That link, for some reason, would not open, but I get the idea. Thanks again for your help.
                  My Build:
                  http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

                  "Believe that you can and you're halfway there".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Floor Insulation

                    Originally posted by NCMan View Post
                    Still can't open, says it's "corrupt". Thanks, anyway. I appreciate the effort.
                    OK, We'll try this way then.
                    Vermicrete insulating slab

                    The purpose of this experiment was to calculate the water loss from a vermicrete insulating slab after casting and placement.

                    Materials Kg Vol (L)

                    Vermiculite 1.82 27.00

                    Cement 7.25 5.40

                    Water 8.10 8.10

                    Total 17.17 21.6

                    For the aggregate in this mixture a 50% vermiculite 50% perlite proportion was used.
                    The mix is generally considered a 5:1 vermicrete and comprised of vermiculite, perlite, Portland cement, water 2.5, 2.5, 1, 1.5 by volume.
                    The form was filled with dry aggregate to obtain required volume, but on mixing and placing in the form, has reduced approx. 20% as some of the grains break down from abrasion during mixing and compaction on placing also reduces volume. The resulting volume reduction is an estimate based on the finished slab thickness.
                    Mixing was done gently by hand in a barrow.
                    The compacted slab was covered for one week to allow good hydration.(no additional water was added)
                    The weather was fine, cloudless, low humidity and the temp in the range of 12- 24 C. The slab was exposed to approx 3 hrs sun/day top surface only.
                    Weighing of materials was done using digital scales, but weighing of finished slab was done using bathroom spring scales as the weight was beyond my digital scales capacity.

                    Although the top of the slab appeared quite dry the bottom was still wet so I lifted it up, stood it on edge to assist drying after Day14


                    Kg
                    Day 7 16.0 fine
                    8 15.0 fine
                    9 14.5 fine
                    10 14.0 fine
                    11 14.0 cloudy
                    12 13.5 cloudy
                    13 13.5 cloudy
                    14 13.5 cloudy
                    21 12.0 fine
                    28 11.0



                    Conclusion
                    Given the ideal drying conditions, relative thinness of the slab and that it was uncovered, the experiment still demonstrates the large quantity of water present and the slow rate of removal. For a thick covered slab expect the water reduction rate to be way lower. After 3 weeks of drying more than 50% of the water had been removed by the weather from the aprox. 2” thick slab. After 4 weeks approx. 75% of the water added had been removed.

                    In hindsight I probably should repeat the experiment and cover it with firebrick, then compare the results. Given that the water under the floor and the base of the dome is the last to be eliminated and the resulting problems and damage it can cause, the drying of a vermicrete slab before building over it is advisable.

                    Sorry it's jumbled up the format a bit, but you should still be able to work it out.
                    Last edited by david s; 02-14-2014, 03:35 PM.
                    Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Floor Insulation

                      Thanks, I appreciate that. Very informative. I've never worked w/the material before and this is all a big learning process to me. Thanks again, David.
                      My Build:
                      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

                      "Believe that you can and you're halfway there".

                      Comment

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